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  #2976  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
mene nilam zeeshan bhai... after all it was crumbling pitch with record number of sixes hit.49 over e 250 kora oshomvob... last 10 over er 70 baad diley 180 dorkar chilo 39 over e... 4.6 er moton akash choa run rate!!! Tamim er ki dosh.. the ball was turning square and the pace was express too. Bechara anamul ke shathe niye block kortesilo but tobuo out hoye gelo.
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  #2977  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:07 AM
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Though Match drawn, but for me Bangladesh have won this match as they played much better cricket than the black caps. well done Mominul, Gazi & co, keep up the good work guys. Have a happy Eid, don't eat too much meat and stay fit and healthy. God bless.
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  #2978  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehedi
Though Match drawn, but for me Bangladesh have won this match as they played much better cricket than the black caps. well done Mominul, Gazi & co, keep up the good work guys. Have a happy Eid, don't eat too much meat and stay fit and healthy. God bless.
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  #2979  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:27 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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That no-ball wicket of Rubel is the difference between Victory and Draw, methinks
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  #2980  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:29 AM
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cricheart cricheart is offline
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Its time to drop these inconsistant openers and better prepare for series decider.
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  #2981  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
That no-ball wicket of Rubel is the difference between Victory and Draw, methinks
That was just brilliant. Not sure if you were sarcastic but really cool.
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  #2982  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
That no-ball wicket of Rubel is the difference between Victory and Draw, methinks
NOP!


That last wicket of Kiwis, umpire made that (only?) fatal mistake by not giving a plumb LBW in favour of the Tigers ...
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  #2983  
Old October 13, 2013, 06:38 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpurush
NOP!


That last wicket of Kiwis, umpire made that (only?) fatal mistake by not giving a plumb LBW in favour of the Tigers ...
i didn't see that i might have been asleep.

just to point out that in the long run in a test match sometimes, mistakes hurt. I feel like NZ scored far too many runs in the first innings when we did a great job taking many wickets when they were threatened to be bowled out under 350 at one stage.


anyways, big congratulations to Bangladesh for showing great fight with both ball and bat. It was a total team effort. Alhamdulillahi Rabbil A'lamin
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  #2984  
Old October 13, 2013, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
Shakib has a beautiful singing voice. Robin Thicke step aside.
When did Shakib sing? It seems I missed this
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  #2985  
Old October 13, 2013, 08:36 AM
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Congratulations on the draw. Some special performance by few. Robiul needs to show up in the next test.
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  #2986  
Old October 13, 2013, 08:43 AM
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Excellent character display from BD boys, top order failure is a big concern though, otherwise BD never looked out of the game like old days. Hope they keep up this form in next test and show the world they have taken a stride.
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  #2987  
Old October 13, 2013, 09:01 AM
Max100 Max100 is offline
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I am happy with bd performances. Hopefully anamul and marshall perform in next match and some wicket from robiul and rubel
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  #2988  
Old October 13, 2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal
MOM = Gazi
Whose MOM can do equal? Boycott's?
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  #2990  
Old October 13, 2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Mash is elated: http://www.prothom-alo.com/sports/ar...A6%BE%E0%A6%B0
Razabda what you think about the approach and the result.. As I always wait for your insightful comments.. I personally feeling sad that we didn't go for win but realistically it might have been too risky
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  #2991  
Old October 15, 2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
Razabda what you think about the approach and the result.. As I always wait for your insightful comments.. I personally feeling sad that we didn't go for win but realistically it might have been too risky
We learned from the past. We lost against WI chasing a 50 over target.
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  #2992  
Old October 16, 2013, 12:56 AM
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Default A draw was the only viable target for the Tigers in the 4th innings in ZAC

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
Razabda what you think about the approach and the result.. As I always wait for your insightful comments.. I personally feeling sad that we didn't go for win but realistically it might have been too risky
SS, I thought my take was abundantly clear that the draw was the only realistic and laudable target for BD, but I will elaborate (again), since you ask nicely

The first thing to consider was the target itself. Was McCullum's target gettable and viable or was it a smokescreen?

Chasing targets in Test match on the last day is NOT easy. In the Entire history of Test cricket there has been only 23 occasions where a team has chased down a target greater than 255 in the 4th innings. (http://www.cricket365.com/stats/test...ngs-run-chases). In the history of test cricket, 4th innings batting averages are typically about 10-15% lower than 1st innings averages. This is why stronger teams than ours have not gone for it with gettable targets. I give you two links for the India example:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-ind...ry/522606.html
http://duckingbeamers.com/2013/02/12...fficult-times/

So, statistically speaking, McCullum knew he was hardly taking any risks.

We move to the next item: the New Zealand side of the equation. What was McCullum's motivation then if it wasn't some nostalgic FTW instinct? Well for a big-mouth who had claimed anything short of outright wins would be a failure, বড় কালাম ভাই had already had put the proverbial locomotion limb into the food-hole. He had only one shot. Put BD in with a plausible enough target for an immature team, watch them lose a bunch of wickets early on a pitch where forcing the pace was going to be a challenge and then hope the pressure (and NOT the ferocity of the bowling or the venom off the pitch) would cause us to collapse. He knew he couldn't possibly lose because if, God forbid the Tigers had, say rattled off 50 in the 1st 10 overs, he could just put everyone on the boundary and tell Bruce Martin and Boult to bowl 1 feet outside leg-stump to our right-handers and Sodhi and Braceweel the same to our southpaws. Wouldn't be done? Steve Waugh did it in the 2001 Brisbane test:
Quote:
But McGrath pulled the shutters down when he bowled a wide line outside off-stump, just inches inside the legal width, and Waugh later defended the tactic.

"We did it when we had to and New Zealand did the same thing," Waugh said.

"There was a lot of wide stuff from their bowlers. It's Test match cricket and you're not going to hand out a victory on a platter.

"They had to work hard for it - that's what it's all about."
(http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...ry/107884.html)

So to sum up, New Zealand set us on a fools errand in their one shot at maintaining some dignity from a match where they had been dominated (and could have lost had a few marginal calls gone our way). And perhaps there was an outside chance they could burgle a win.

Now onto the final item: How Bangladesh approached the chase. Based on points 1 & 2, the pragmatists would already say, "dude get the draw, it will be your moral victory". But we have dreamers in the fan-base and immature batters in the line-up. Mushy's instructions to TiK and Anamul was: play your natural game, according to the conditions.

Throughout the match it was evident that the conditions were conducive to sticking around and not for forcing the pace. As I pointed out live, almost every batter who had tried to force the pace got out. Now NOT forcing the pace is not the same as slow scoring. If the bowlers are bowling a lot of tripe, take advantage. That's how Momin scored so fast in the first 100 runs of his. And forcing the pace against a new ball (on a slow pitch where the new ball was the most likely source of zip) was not the same as tonking a few against tiring spinners at the end of the match (as Shakib did).

Add on top of that the mindset of our openers. What would Anamul and Tamim be feeling if they had gone on to the Dhaka test with dual failures? Our batters _are_ an immature bunch. We would have already slightly lowered our chances of win on the more results oriented Dhaka pitch. And as others have pointed out, just recently, against the Windies, we thought we were better than Dhoni's bunch and "went for it". The result was a lecture from Chanderpaul to our batsmen on the grammar of Test match batting (can't find the Prothom Alo link).

It is in that mileau that we began our fourth innings "chase". The Kiwi bowlers certainly didn't give anything away and bowled mostly wicket to wicket lines. Nor was the field setting overly aggressive with fielders all around the batsman. So TiK and Anamul played the bowling to its merit and batted themselves into some form. New Zealand gave up the ghost fairly quickly and settled on getting their spinners some bowling practice. And that in turn was another mistake on McCullum's part. He should have called off the dogs when there was 1 hour of play left. Instead the situation was ideal for Shak to come in and get some batting form when (based on the evidence in the Caribbean, he couldn't even buy runs).

For all those fans who dreamed of a win or the NZ commentator who opined on our lack of adventure, I say "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If we had went for it and lost, NO ONE would remember it. It would have been the traditional "there goes Bangladesh, losing a Test match" refrain.

To wrap up, we played good cricket, dominated in scoring rate, wickets taken and hight-lights and got the draw against a higher ranked team. Let's live to fight another day.
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  #2993  
Old October 16, 2013, 02:46 AM
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Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
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God dayum RazabQ, you broke that down like two kit kats. Myth debunked! Quite enjoyed reading it.
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  #2994  
Old October 16, 2013, 06:11 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
SS, I thought my take was abundantly clear that the draw was the only realistic and laudable target for BD, but I will elaborate (again), since you ask nicely
Well excuse us for not having ATB on your post at all times.

Quote:

The first thing to consider was the target itself. Was McCullum's target gettable and viable or was it a smokescreen?

Chasing targets in Test match on the last day is NOT easy. In the Entire history of Test cricket there has been only 23 occasions where a team has chased down a target greater than 255 in the 4th innings. (http://www.cricket365.com/stats/test...ngs-run-chases). In the history of test cricket, 4th innings batting averages are typically about 10-15% lower than 1st innings averages. This is why stronger teams than ours have not gone for it with gettable targets. I give you two links for the India example:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-ind...ry/522606.html
http://duckingbeamers.com/2013/02/12...fficult-times/

So, statistically speaking, McCullum knew he was hardly taking any risks.
Gist of your entire post is "oh since this has NEVER been done, it shall NEVER been done." Very weak argument really. And by your own logic since the highest chased involved near-about 418 and less, then why is it that WE couldn't chase it?

Quote:
We move to the next item: the New Zealand side of the equation. What was McCullum's motivation then if it wasn't some nostalgic FTW instinct? Well for a big-mouth who had claimed anything short of outright wins would be a failure, বড় কালাম ভাই had already had put the proverbial locomotion limb into the food-hole. He had only one shot. Put BD in with a plausible enough target for an immature team, watch them lose a bunch of wickets early on a pitch where forcing the pace was going to be a challenge and then hope the pressure (and NOT the ferocity of the bowling or the venom off the pitch) would cause us to collapse. He knew he couldn't possibly lose because if, God forbid the Tigers had, say rattled off 50 in the 1st 10 overs, he could just put everyone on the boundary and tell Bruce Martin and Boult to bowl 1 feet outside leg-stump to our right-handers and Sodhi and Braceweel the same to our southpaws. Wouldn't be done? Steve Waugh did it in the 2001 Brisbane test:
(http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...ry/107884.html)

So to sum up, New Zealand set us on a fools errand in their one shot at maintaining some dignity from a match where they had been dominated (and could have lost had a few marginal calls gone our way). And perhaps there was an outside chance they could burgle a win.
...Oh I know what you will say. We are POOR boo-hoo-hoo Bangladesh. We are NOT strong. We are soooo weak and immature that we were bound to put axe on our feet. Such self-loathing, self-negating and self-sabotaging argument does little to inspire a team and to move forward and actually chase down targets.

Again gist of your argument is: It's hasn't been done, tau it hasn't been done by strong team. So that's why Kenya went to semis. That's why we gunned down Cardiff. Because it has never been done.

Quote:

Now onto the final item: How Bangladesh approached the chase. Based on points 1 & 2, the pragmatists would already say, "dude get the draw, it will be your moral victory". But we have dreamers in the fan-base and immature batters in the line-up. Mushy's instructions to TiK and Anamul was: play your natural game, according to the conditions.
NO! They were not playing their natural game. Shakib was. Shakib was playing his stroke playing natural game. And "immature" batters is no excuse.

Quote:

Throughout the match it was evident that the conditions were conducive to sticking around and not for forcing the pace. As I pointed out live, almost every batter who had tried to force the pace got out. Now NOT forcing the pace is not the same as slow scoring. If the bowlers are bowling a lot of tripe, take advantage. That's how Momin scored so fast in the first 100 runs of his. And forcing the pace against a new ball (on a slow pitch where the new ball was the most likely source of zip) was not the same as tonking a few against tiring spinners at the end of the match (as Shakib did).

Add on top of that the mindset of our openers. What would Anamul and Tamim be feeling if they had gone on to the Dhaka test with dual failures? Our batters _are_ an immature bunch. We would have already slightly lowered our chances of win on the more results oriented Dhaka pitch. And as others have pointed out, just recently, against the Windies, we thought we were better than Dhoni's bunch and "went for it". The result was a lecture from Chanderpaul to our batsmen on the grammar of Test match batting (can't find the Prothom Alo link).
Again the kernel of your argument is the "pitch" factor. Jeezus, pitch is not everything. Then one would just toss the damn coin, look at the pitch conditions and go home. PERFORMANCE is. That's HOW a game is played. You TAME the pitch, just like Shakib did.

Besides New Zealand had sorryass second string bowling line up. FACT is it was one-day match and Bangladesh is QUITE ADEPT at one-day successful chases. Again it was not 800 runs we were chasing. By ODI context - again Test is just a label, perception is everything - AND we had the wrong perception or intent to begin with.

Quote:
It is in that mileau that we began our fourth innings "chase". The Kiwi bowlers certainly didn't give anything away and bowled mostly wicket to wicket lines. Nor was the field setting overly aggressive with fielders all around the batsman. So TiK and Anamul played the bowling to its merit and batted themselves into some form. New Zealand gave up the ghost fairly quickly and settled on getting their spinners some bowling practice. And that in turn was another mistake on McCullum's part. He should have called off the dogs when there was 1 hour of play left. Instead the situation was ideal for Shak to come in and get some batting form when (based on the evidence in the Caribbean, he couldn't even buy runs).

For all those fans who dreamed of a win or the NZ commentator who opined on our lack of adventure, I say "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If we had went for it and lost, NO ONE would remember it. It would have been the traditional "there goes Bangladesh, losing a Test match" refrain.

To wrap up, we played good cricket, dominated in scoring rate, wickets taken and hight-lights and got the draw against a higher ranked team. Let's live to fight another day.
I don't think playing NONCOMPETITIVE match for a gettable target is "good cricket". It just settles the inferiority complex of the team further in. They were highly spirited by Gazi hattrick and Mominul 181 which was DESTROYED by some Shamimesque black-or-white shot caller curbing their enthusiasm. But cricket is more nuanced than that. It's not either hit or block. After playing 10 odd years, they should at least know that and chase down such targets in spite of wickets. Wicket is just a platform, how you play the game is entirely you. It's the same LAME excuse a disabled kid can pull: OH i am on wheel chair and REALISTICALLY and PRAGMATICALLY nothing will happen.

Do and take look at Hawking and other REALISTS. That dude who has sawed off arms and legs that are climbing heights.

Self-negating, self-defeating, demotivational, cynical excuses never did anyone any good.

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  #2995  
Old October 16, 2013, 06:17 AM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Zeeshan fridge e Ice Tea thakle kheye felo ak glass ekkhuni
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  #2996  
Old October 16, 2013, 06:53 AM
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So here's what I'm gone do. I'm gone get me a lawn chair. And I'm gone watch this argument play out. Z-Sean the visionary court jester vs RazabQ the ice cold realist.
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  #2997  
Old October 16, 2013, 08:25 AM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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razab Bhai. You deserve a noble prize!
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  #2998  
Old October 16, 2013, 08:50 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Heard mathematician often turns up mad, I have started to believe it.
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  #2999  
Old October 16, 2013, 08:59 AM
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Zee, the line between foolhardiness and bravery is a fine one. My observations are from the prism of someone who actively plays the game at a decent level and has been an avid cricket reader and watcher for 25 years. You are most welcome to your philosophical argument that "if is theoretically possible, then torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead." but what evidence are you offering that in this match, under the circumstances I list, a chase was on? Pull out run rates of failed chases vs successful ones; not random examples such as Kenya making it to the semis on an ODI tourney because they got walkovers in the group stage. What evidence do you offer of this so called inferiority complex against NZ at home when all the principals are claiming otherwise (read the PA piece on conversations with players before Eid: http://www.prothom-alo.com/sports/ar...%8D%E0%A6%A8)? Explain to me how cross batted hoiks against the new ball, facing decent pacers, as an opener is the same as a middle order batters strokeplay against spinners? Explain again why every cricketer talks about the pitch so much when it is a simple case of mind over matter?

Last edited by RazabQ; October 16, 2013 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: PA link found.
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  #3000  
Old October 16, 2013, 09:41 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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I'm going to put Razab's post as an FP article and I hope Zee will also fine time his riposte to publish.
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