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  #1  
Old December 18, 2012, 12:04 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Default When and how top order batting problem in test cricket will be solved?

In top order,last test series we used SN,Junaid and Nazimuddin. Other than Tamim, none of them looked have the ability to perform in test cricket.
So,When and how we will get the solution of this top order collapse in tests?
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  #2  
Old December 18, 2012, 12:09 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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I am giving the list of all the top order from NCL:
Dhaka Division: Rony Talukder , Abdul Majid
Barisal: Fazle Rabbi, Nasiruddin Faruk, SN
Rajshahi: Jahirul,Junaid, Maisukur, Mizanur Rahman
Khulna: Imrul, Soumya, Anamul
Dhaka Metro: Shamsur, Ash
Syl: Golam Rahman, Sayem Alam, Imtiaz
Chittagong: TIK, Nafees, Nazimuddin, Mahbubul Karim
Rangpur: Liton Kumar,
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  #3  
Old December 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Last series our top order:
1.Tamim
2.Junaid/Nazimuddin
3.SN
Definitely we need to find better options for #2 and #3.
#3: Best option here is Anamul. I want him here first. Some people may argue to make him as opener. To me he never looked ready for opening in test cricket. Some people will argue for Naeem as well. Naeem is a batsman with very limited caliber. It will be wrong to promote him now.
#2: This is the main concern for us. We have tried 3/4 players in recent time but non of them shown the ability to open in test cricket.
Options we have:
1. Old blood: Jahirul, Imrul, SN,Junaid
2. New blood: Maisukur, Nasiruddin Faruk, Mizanur Rahman.
Coming franchise based 4 day league will be a very good option to compare all of them and find one suitable. To me if Jahirul can continue his form in coming league he is the best candidate here.
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  #4  
Old December 18, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Tamim - long term, settled
Anamul - groom him to open with Tamim. The best option at the moment, surely.
Mahmudullah - how long before one of your most techinically adept batsmen gets to play at 3 rather than clowns like Mofees?
Shakib - does best at #4.
Naeem - I'm okay with him batting at 3, but I prefer Riyad. Or swap him with Riyad at 5.
Rahim, Nasir to follow, maybe Mominul in too.
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  #5  
Old December 18, 2012, 02:05 AM
deshprem deshprem is offline
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what do you mean when? you don't just decide when you want to fix something like this, you try and fix it constantly. Stupid question.
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  #6  
Old December 18, 2012, 02:12 AM
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This issue goes way beyond choosing who will bat at 1, 2, 3, 4. Whoever we put at 3 or 4 or 5, they will struggle because of technical flaws, mindset issues, or simply lack of familiarity with the situation/position. Nasir Hossain is a different batsman batting at 6, 7 versus batting in the top order. I bet Mahmudullah will have the same problem. During Siddon's time at least Imrul Kayes was giving a start and was averaging close to 30. Thats because he was familiar batting at the top, had reasonable technique, and most importantly was batting with a specific plan or a goal which was to see out the new ball without playing too many rash shots. Imrul was also shielding Tamim from the good bowlers, rotating strike and playing perfect foil.

Number 1 we need a batting coach to work with our flaws. Secondly every player must know their role. Anamul shouldnt even think of slogging early on, and should do whatever to see out the new ball. Thirdly these guys must bat in these positions for their domestic teams. And if they fail at 3 or 4, we shouldnt just chop and change. Give them time to settle in. Like let Nasir play more against the new ball. Eventually he ll be fine
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  #7  
Old December 18, 2012, 02:26 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deshprem
what do you mean when? you don't just decide when you want to fix something like this, you try and fix it constantly. Stupid question.
Opening in the test cricket is a specialist job. Some good test team have specialist test opener. I was just looking for the options we have and found none suitable. So we need to have some specific plan. We can offer the academy to try to produce such batsman. No initiative have been taken yet and we have none in our pipeline. So its clear it will take lot more time to produce quality top order in test cricket. Thats why i used the word when.
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  #8  
Old December 18, 2012, 03:50 AM
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Our top order is a huge suspect. The only way to fix this is to imo go with fresh faces. Really do not want JS, SN, Jahurul or Nazim to be anywhere near the team. The only thing we could do is throw Anamul into the mix. You could gamble with SS or Mominul but other then that i do not say anyone else worthy enough. Imrul is not suited to test cricket. He think its best to leave him as a ODI specialist (similar to Razzak)

I think its best if we leave this lineup for tests
1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Anamul Haque
3. Naeem Islam
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mahmudullah
8. (Another batsmen, allrounder or maybe a bowler?)

If we fit a fresh face at #3 then Naeem would drop to #4 and imo the team lineup will be unbalanced. No point adding a walking wicket at #3. Just shift Naeem there and everyone else can follow suit. If another batsmen is fitted at #3 and Naeem is placed at #4 then the whole lineup will have to shift one place down. That would lead Mahmudullah to bat at #8 which is too low for him.

If people for some reason want to leave Naeem at #4 then the only person i would consider at #3 is Mominul Haque. Other then that i dont want anyone else. Im sick of all the walking wickets ie SN, JS and co.
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  #9  
Old December 18, 2012, 04:12 AM
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We need to get the selection process right first
i) Selectors place in a system of taking video footage for NCL games
ii)Highest run scorers in NCL gets into the watch list provided Selectors are satisfied with technical aspects from the video footage of those players.
ii) Highest run scorers with decent technique gets drafted into HP, A teams and goes on subsequent tours
iii) Highest scorers from the HP and A teams gets drafted into the Warm-up practice matches against Touring International teams
iv) Good performances ensures a Test cap for the individual
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  #10  
Old December 18, 2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
I am giving the list of all the top order from NCL:
Dhaka Division: Rony Talukder , Abdul Majid
Barisal: Fazle Rabbi, Nasiruddin Faruk, SN
Rajshahi: Jahirul,Junaid, Maisukur, Mizanur Rahman
Khulna: Imrul, Soumya, Anamul
Dhaka Metro: Shamsur, Ash
Syl: Golam Rahman, Sayem Alam, Imtiaz
Chittagong: TIK, Nafees, Nazimuddin, Mahbubul Karim
Rangpur: Liton Kumar,
Add Mominul's name to Chittagong. I reckon he could be a #3 that we have been waiting for.
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  #11  
Old December 18, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Test for 2013:

01.Tamim
02.Shahriar
03.Anamul
04.Naeem
05.Shakib
06.Nasir
07.Rahim
08.Mahmudullah
09.Gazi
10.Rubel/Nazmul/Shafiul/Abul
11.Rubel/Nazmul/Shafiul/Abul

But our fast bowlers seriously need to perform and make an impact otherwise winning tests even against Zimbabwe would be difficult. In Zimbabwe series though ideally you'd like to use a third seamer as well considering its conditions so maybe you could drop a batsman i.e. Naeem. Shahriar as we all know has one of the best records against Zimbabwe so I'd use him despite the criticism.
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  #12  
Old December 18, 2012, 08:11 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Our top order is a huge suspect. The only way to fix this is to imo go with fresh faces. Really do not want JS, SN, Jahurul or Nazim to be anywhere near the team. The only thing we could do is throw Anamul into the mix. You could gamble with SS or Mominul but other then that i do not say anyone else worthy enough. Imrul is not suited to test cricket. He think its best to leave him as a ODI specialist (similar to Razzak)

I think its best if we leave this lineup for tests
1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Anamul Haque
3. Naeem Islam
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mahmudullah
8. (Another batsmen, allrounder or maybe a bowler?)

If we fit a fresh face at #3 then Naeem would drop to #4 and imo the team lineup will be unbalanced. No point adding a walking wicket at #3. Just shift Naeem there and everyone else can follow suit. If another batsmen is fitted at #3 and Naeem is placed at #4 then the whole lineup will have to shift one place down. That would lead Mahmudullah to bat at #8 which is too low for him.

If people for some reason want to leave Naeem at #4 then the only person i would consider at #3 is Mominul Haque. Other then that i dont want anyone else. Im sick of all the walking wickets ie SN, JS and co.
I know this suggestion will come from lot of my fellow forum mates.
Naeem issue: As I mentioned earlier, during Siddons era Naeem was over hyped. Lot of people in this forum said that Siddons ruined the career of Naeem,he is a top order batsman why should he bat at #8. But I think you have seen him playing recently. He is a man with very limited ability. He just have come back. His place in national team is not cemented yet. If we promote him to #3, it will be a suicide call.
Anamul: He is basically a #3 batsman. He is a future prospect. To me its a poor idea to send this guy to open in tests in his debut match who don't even open in NCL.
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  #13  
Old December 18, 2012, 06:51 PM
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naeem stays at #4 for now imo, see iof he can make the #4 his spot. try anamul and mominul at 2/3, anamul has done ok as opener in ODIs, he's a long term option at the top of the order. mominul has the qualities to succeed at the international level in technique and mindset so give him the #3 spot, he's got the game and mindset to play there more than probably anyone else who is around atm.
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  #14  
Old December 18, 2012, 09:19 PM
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First, you have to get competent selectors. Otherwise, no problem will be solved.
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  #15  
Old December 18, 2012, 09:23 PM
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We are missing at least 1 top order batsman, namely TIK's partner. But, for now, our first seven in tests could be:
  1. Tamim Iqbal
  2. Anamul Haque
  3. Mahmudullah
  4. Naeem Islam
  5. Shakib Al Hasan
  6. Mushfiqur Rahim
  7. Nasir Hossain
Naeem should not be in ODI and T20. He has to show me more to convince that he is a long-term test option. I liked what I saw from young Mominul, but he has a long way to go.
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  #16  
Old December 18, 2012, 10:30 PM
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  #17  
Old December 19, 2012, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
He is a man with very limited ability. He just have come back. His place in national team is not cemented yet. If we promote him to #3, it will be a suicide call. .
Thats good that he is a man with limited ability. That way we have someone who would want to occupy the crease and not get himself out playing stupid strokes. Thats the type of batsmen i want at #3 for tests. But i definitely do not want Naeem for ODIs. I wouldnt mind Naeem coming at #4 but is it worth putting Riyad at #8? To me its too low. As I said earlier if Naeem does stay at #4 the only person i would want at #3 is Mominul Haque.

Quote:
Anamul: He is basically a #3 batsman. He is a future prospect. To me its a poor idea to send this guy to open in tests in his debut match who don't even open in NCL.
But why was Anamul put as opener with Tamim in ODIs? Face it selectors see Anamul has a long term partner for Tamim. So we have to go with that. So for your sake you want Anamul at #3 who will bat at #2? The walking wickets of Shahriar Nafees, Junaid Siddique, Nazimuddin, Jahurul Islam, Imrul Kayes? We are gifting a wicket to the opposition if we let any of these people opening the batting in tests.

And how is it a so called 'poor idea?' Phil Hughes has been an opener for his whole life but at the moment he is batting at #3 for Australia in tests... batting at #2 and #3 isnt a massive difference.
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  #18  
Old December 19, 2012, 04:17 AM
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To me there is a massive difference between #2 and #3.
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  #19  
Old December 19, 2012, 04:35 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
We are missing at least 1 top order batsman, namely TIK's partner. But, for now, our first seven in tests could be:
  1. Tamim Iqbal
  2. Anamul Haque
  3. Mahmudullah
  4. Naeem Islam
  5. Shakib Al Hasan
  6. Mushfiqur Rahim
  7. Nasir Hossain
Naeem should not be in ODI and T20. He has to show me more to convince that he is a long-term test option. I liked what I saw from young Mominul, but he has a long way to go.
Suja vai promoting Riyad is a good idea. Several times he was offered to bat up but he have refused. The mental setup and confidence Riyad have , he will refuse it again I am sure. In that case whom you want to give the duty ?
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Old December 19, 2012, 04:54 AM
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  #21  
Old December 19, 2012, 09:27 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
First, you have to get competent selectors. Otherwise, no problem will be solved.
Suja Vai, this selection committee is run by 3 ex captains . Hardly we have better selectors left. All the same.
Main thing is selectors need to be more proactive. They need to realize that top order batting in test cricket is a specialized job. Unless we produce quality top order we will not be able to win tests. Selectors need to produce some top order separately. Say Nasiruddin Faruk, Rony Talukder, Mizanur Rahman, Mysukur all play in N C L in top order. But none have any specific goul. Selectors can engage them to prepare for test top order. Another thing is Academy should be given special duty to produce few top order for test cricket. Nothing has started yet. So it seems chacha dhaka koto dur ???
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  #22  
Old December 19, 2012, 09:44 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Thats good that he is a man with limited ability. That way we have someone who would want to occupy the crease and not get himself out playing stupid strokes. Thats the type of batsmen i want at #3 for tests. But i definitely do not want Naeem for ODIs. I wouldnt mind Naeem coming at #4 but is it worth putting Riyad at #8? To me its too low. As I said earlier if Naeem does stay at #4 the only person i would want at #3 is Mominul Haque.



But why was Anamul put as opener with Tamim in ODIs? Face it selectors see Anamul has a long term partner for Tamim. So we have to go with that. So for your sake you want Anamul at #3 who will bat at #2? The walking wickets of Shahriar Nafees, Junaid Siddique, Nazimuddin, Jahurul Islam, Imrul Kayes? We are gifting a wicket to the opposition if we let any of these people opening the batting in tests.

And how is it a so called 'poor idea?' Phil Hughes has been an opener for his whole life but at the moment he is batting at #3 for Australia in tests... batting at #2 and #3 isnt a massive difference.
If Naeem is promoted to #3. I am sure He will stat to perform so low that ultimately he will not be able to make the 11. So please keep him there and don't ruin his career again.
#8 Is very low for Riyad No doubt. In that case he will have to show courage to bat at #3. This spot is vacant.
The way Mominul batted in O D I. I am sorry to say he is not yet ready for test cricket.
From the whole team, other than Anamul only Nasir has the ability to play at top order But he need few more games to gain confidence to bat up the order.
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  #23  
Old December 19, 2012, 09:54 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
To me there is a massive difference between #2 and #3.
That's the point. In test cricket opening is a real tough job. No doubt #2 and #3 in test cricket is far more different. This is not O D I. Tendulker and Ganguly were world famous opener in O D I, still they did not feel easy at top order in test cricket. Opening in test cricket is a specialized job and its a tough job.
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  #24  
Old December 19, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
Suja vai promoting Riyad is a good idea. Several times he was offered to bat up but he have refused. The mental setup and confidence Riyad have , he will refuse it again I am sure. In that case whom you want to give the duty ?
I don't know. However, Riyad has shown quite a few times when early wickets fell that he has the capability to bat top of the order. Maybe he will agree now.
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  #25  
Old December 19, 2012, 11:37 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
I don't know. However, Riyad has shown quite a few times when early wickets fell that he has the capability to bat top of the order. Maybe he will agree now.
Suja Vai, in his interview Jimi Siddons said that several times he has offered Riyad to bat up the order. But Riyad has refused.
Few days ago I asked same question to Ian Point. Ian also admitted the issue and said that during his time Riyad was reluctant to bat up as he felt inconfident.
Another thing is very simple. We are craving for a #3 batsman for last 4-5 years. If Riyad have enough confident he should raise voice that I want to solve the problem. I am sure none of the selectors will mind. Rather as days are passing his batting position is going down. He don't have enough courage that's the problem.
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