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  #26  
Old December 28, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Dhakablues Dhakablues is offline
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Overrated: Tamim, Rubel, Shafiul
Underrated: Mahmudullah Riad, Nasir Hossain, Mushfiqur Rahim

I don't consider Alok, Aftab, Ashraful because they are not going to return to national fold anytime soon unless there is catastrophy. Shahrier Nafees also falls in that overrated bunch- who sometimes shows brilliance and then does same thing a la Imrul Kayes would do. Tamim is still a fuke sometimes and you can trust on him as you can with a Riad, Mushfique-who will atleast tryto play according the state of play. But there isnt a Tamim replacement yet..We are past those AAA days and players like Anamul, Nasir etc. has shown a new midset and skills that was missing post Akram/Nannu era..
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  #27  
Old December 28, 2012, 05:26 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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a lot of players are overrated. ash, alok, aftab, SN, junaid etc mostly batsmen. players who are underrated? there probably aren't that many within the country, nazmul i think is underrated by the selectors but i think most who see him, even coaches and probably players from other teams actually think he's ok but being that he's barely ever selected the selectors must think he's pretty bad.

i think shakib is still underrated by the cricket world, his reputation is getting more well known, he is starting to create a bigger presence but i've always felt that people talked about tamim more than shakib which i didn't understand. i think mash is also underrated, perhaps because he's been off the field so often people haven't had a chance to see him properly for any real length of time, most fans (outside of here and BD) think he's ok but that's about it, but in reality he's quite a decent bowler. if mash hadn't had the injuries and was allowed on field for good lengths of time i think his name would be a lot more well known in the cricketing world, probably would have even got calls to bigger and better competitions like county cricket and even the IPL.
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  #28  
Old December 28, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Riyad has confidence issues at times but he is still an underrated batsmen. Mushfiq is a really good batsmen pretty much in any given situation.
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  #29  
Old December 28, 2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Its quite silly that some people think Rafique was overrated. Infact, Rafique would have been one of the great SLAs had he played for a better side. He was an amazingly intelligent bowler, had fantastic rhythm and the master of the arm ball. Just imagine the amount of wickets he would have picked up if BD could make the oppositions bat in the 2nd Innings and on the 4th or 5th day pitches!
Couldn't agree more. Just to add one point here. Rafiq never was used properly at his prime time because of Moni. Rafiq had to wait for Moni to retire. Rafiq's career would've been much much better had our selectors at that time were little more intelligent..
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  #30  
Old December 28, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
I wholeheartedly agree that rafique was over rated. yes , he was the best bowler we had but that's mainly due to the horrendous quality of bowlers surrounding him. but we Bangladeshis made him sound like one of the best in the world , but in all honesty he won't make any other test team in that period.

he still was a great bowler , best in Bangladesh but still overrated
oh really? Except aus,lanka and india, he would have easily make the rest of test teams in that period..
And oh, do you know the funny part about your post? This is the same lame excuse that people (outside of bc and bd) show while critisizing shakib that he looks like a best allrounder of the world because he plays for a low ranked team and he dosenot have quality player around him..

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  #31  
Old December 28, 2012, 11:20 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Overrated Mash, Rubel, Rasel, The Rajib, The Ash, The Tamim
Underrated: Razzak and SLA x
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  #32  
Old December 28, 2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
oh really? Except aus,lanka and india, he would have easily make the rest of test teams in that period..

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Not really. He'd have struggled to make it to SA and Pakistan too.
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  #33  
Old December 28, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Its quite silly that some people think Rafique was overrated.
Read what people are actually saying first IMHO. Strawman arguments wouldn't help your cause at all.

Quote:
Infact, Rafique would have been one of the great SLAs had he played for a better side. He was an amazingly intelligent bowler, had fantastic rhythm and the master of the arm ball. Just imagine the amount of wickets he would have picked up if BD could make the oppositions bat in the 2nd Innings and on the 4th or 5th day pitches!
Coulda woulda shoulda. And you know this how?
By the same token you could say Shakib woulda been ATG spinner had he played in a better team, got to bowl in 4th innings etc. - but you know that's mere speculation. In fact you could say that about loads of players.

Thanks for briliantly demonstrating my point how he's overrated in BC (BC alone).
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  #34  
Old December 28, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Not really. He'd have struggled to make it to SA and Pakistan too.
i dont think so.. At that time, pakistan didnot have any good spinner.. Some banker also played for pakistan during that time and imo rafique would have done much better job than kaneria. And for sa i dont remember that much really.. Did they have any good specialist spinner at that time? I guess no..

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  #35  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
i dont think so.. At that time, pakistan didnot have any good spinner.. Some banker also played for pakistan during that time and imo rafique would have done much better job than kaneria. And for sa i dont remember that much really.. Did they have any good specialist spinner at that time? I guess no..

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Danish Kaneria at the time was in decent form IIRC. SA had spinners like Robin Pietersen and Paul Harris who're OK, but they have too good a pace attack to field such spinners.

Hype him up all you want, but 40+ average is not remotely exceptional, doesn't matter the context, team he played for etc. (I rate him, and like him, to say this AGAIN)
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  #36  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Overrated: Whole Bangladesh team.

Underrated: None
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  #37  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Overrated:
Ashraful - there are still people who think he has 'talent', despite all the 'ash bash' here .
Nazmul Hossain - Like him, but feel he's a tad overrated here since he's overlooked by BCB.
Rafique - I know he meant a lot to BD when he played etc. - but still a tad overrated.

Underrated:
Riyad - Partly himself to blame since he played some 'selfish' knocks. But I don't think many still regard him as a good potential #3 as I do.
Shafiul - his ability as a swing/seam bowler is underrated here IMO.
Mosharaff Hossain - why doesn't anyone talk of him at all? He performs consistently even more than Enamul Jr. probably.
Jahirul Islam - another player whom I see as a fine prospect
i was really disappointed when Mosharraf Rubel went to ICL. i had high hopes in him and still have. he got a 5fer in the BCL match and i hope he will get into the reckoning of selectors soon.
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  #38  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:34 AM
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i am simply the most under rated amateur cricketer in BD

over rated was Javed Bhai and Zeeshan Bhai
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  #39  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:44 AM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Hype him up all you want, but 40+ average is not remotely exceptional, doesn't matter the context, team he played for etc. (I rate him, and like him, to say this AGAIN)
You 'rate him' but obviously you dont think he was good enough at his prime. He was the saviour in the Bangladesh team when things were tough. Im actually disgusted by people questioning Rafique's ability. Shakib has a batting average of 35. Does it mean that he is not good enough to play for any team? You seem like Rafique got spanked around because you are saying he isnt 'good enough' but averages dont tell the whole story. Just because he had an average of 40 in tests doesnt mean he wasnt good enough. To paint the whole picture in tests Rafique has an economy rate of 2.79. He was renowned for keeping things quiet and was very accurate with his bowling. If you actually watched him play you would understand what context he played in and how he delivered.

People may not like this but Rafique at his prime is a better bowler than Shakib at his best. Shakib has gotten international attention through IPL but unfortunately Rafique didnt get the same. Please if you are questioning his worth then instead of looking at the 'test' section of cricinfo actually look at his FC, List-A and T20 bowling stats and then you understand that he was a class bowler and is the best spinner that played for Bangladesh.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/Australi...yer/55973.html
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  #40  
Old December 29, 2012, 02:11 AM
Max100 Max100 is offline
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Abuls rate is accurate. He had no success anywhere, except that brilliant century

He is overrated as a bowler
Underrated as a batsman
Same goes for dollar mahmud

Najmul milon and najmul hossain both under rated.

Over rated: nafis iqbal, aftab, nazimuddin, shahadat,mahbubul robin
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  #41  
Old December 29, 2012, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
You 'rate him' but obviously you dont think he was good enough at his prime. He was the saviour in the Bangladesh team when things were tough. Im actually disgusted by people questioning Rafique's ability. Shakib has a batting average of 35. Does it mean that he is not good enough to play for any team? You seem like Rafique got spanked around because you are saying he isnt 'good enough' but averages dont tell the whole story. Just because he had an average of 40 in tests doesnt mean he wasnt good enough. To paint the whole picture in tests Rafique has an economy rate of 2.79. He was renowned for keeping things quiet and was very accurate with his bowling. If you actually watched him play you would understand what context he played in and how he delivered.

People may not like this but Rafique at his prime is a better bowler than Shakib at his best. Shakib has gotten international attention through IPL but unfortunately Rafique didnt get the same. Please if you are questioning his worth then instead of looking at the 'test' section of cricinfo actually look at his FC, List-A and T20 bowling stats and then you understand that he was a class bowler and is the best spinner that played for Bangladesh.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/Australi...yer/55973.html
I rate him - that doesn't mean I overrate him. He's your second best spinner without a shred of doubt. Clearly you're having a hard time grasping the concept of being a fine player and being overrated here. Stop posting strawman arguments please. I do think he's a better bowler than his stats seem to suggest. That's besides the point.

He has played like 7 t20s. And the fact that you're even bringing his test economy rate up makes me

Quote:
Shakib has a batting average of 35. Does it mean that he is not good enough to play for any team?
He isn't as a batsman alone in most top test teams - any doubts? Throw in his bowling average and he is. And he's not even halfway through his career BTW. Such a false analogy.
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  #42  
Old December 29, 2012, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Jesus Christ, read my post properly dude I said he's very underrated outside BC. You know, like rest of the world outside this forum. What are you even trying to say?

BD players are underrated in general, agree with that BTW.
o allah! thats pretty bad generalised view for "rest of the world outside BC".
What I tried to hint you, not to derail this tread into Who is/was more over-rated Shakib/Rafique? - kinda topic here. Because time, team combo, expectation, number of matches, fan-base achievment nothing will favour none of them to lead.
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  #43  
Old December 29, 2012, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricheart
o allah! thats pretty bad generalised view for "rest of the world outside BC".
What I tried to hint you, not to derail this tread into Who is/was more over-rated Shakib/Rafique? - kinda topic here. Because time, team combo, expectation, number of matches, fan-base achievment nothing will favour none of them to lead.
Why would you say it's a bad generalization? As far as I'm aware he's quite underrated outside BC (i.e. non BD fans)
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  #44  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Shakibrulz,
I just wonder if you have followed much of Rafiques career or early day Bangladesh in Test -before the likes of Shakib hit the scene. I doubt it! If you go by stats alone then Rubel shouldnt be anywhere near a Test match. But, people who understand cricket or have played cricket knows his true potential. I would suggest you temper your opinions with a little bit of modesty and better understanding of the game. I dont intend to be mean as I usually like your posts.

Barry Richards only played about 4/5 Tests. Would it be a crime to speculate whether he would have been or could have been an all time Test great had he played more Test? More recently Tino Best had outstanding wicket hauls against a very decent BD side. Going by stats alone that would make him much better bowler than Edwards, Roach or Rampaul. Stats always dont tell one the whole story. Better understanding of the game and its history, particular era, playing context of certain country or its players, weakness/strength of oppositions played against etc all has to be taken into account for a more educated and balanced evaluation or speculation. Aunt Sally and educated speculation shouldnt be mistaken as the same.
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  #45  
Old December 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Shakibrulz,
I just wonder if you have followed much of Rafiques career or early day Bangladesh in Test -before the likes of Shakib hit the scene. I doubt it!
My thoughts exactly.
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  #46  
Old December 29, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
To early to rate any player under 25.
Kohli is way under 25. (I know he is not from BD, but some players do blossom early.)
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  #47  
Old December 29, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Not really. He'd have struggled to make it to SA and Pakistan too.
Who were better spinners than Rafique in these teams?
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  #48  
Old December 29, 2012, 01:47 PM
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underrated: javed omal belim gollu
overrrated: roqibul
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  #49  
Old December 29, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Its quite silly that some people think Rafique was overrated. Infact, Rafique would have been one of the great SLAs had he played for a better side. He was an amazingly intelligent bowler, had fantastic rhythm and the master of the arm ball. Just imagine the amount of wickets he would have picked up if BD could make the oppositions bat in the 2nd Innings and on the 4th or 5th day pitches!
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. I don't fully believe it, but being involved in scientific research for nearly 25 years, I do know that statistics don't always tell the whole story. MAK Pataudi, among many others, (rightly or wrongly) considered Erapalli Prasanna the best off-spinner of all time. However, Jim Laker had much better stats. In contrast, if India had a small total to defend, he would go with Chandrasekhar. Why? Because Chandra was the only bowler in his disposal who could truly demolish a batting lineup on his day. There are many more examples, but I don't have the time for a long post.

Unless you have followed a cricketer when he was playing, it is difficult to speculate whether he was under- or overrated. It is a fact that Rafique did not get to exploit the 4th or the 5th day pitch, which has to be taken into account in rating him. Statistics are not produced in a vacuum. Finally, the people who really can rate him properly are the batsmen who batted against him. I didn't have the time to find any, though. Anyone?
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  #50  
Old December 29, 2012, 01:55 PM
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What is your criteria for rating the players? It is not clear at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Overrated:
Ashraful - there are still people who think he has 'talent', despite all the 'ash bash' here .
Nazmul Hossain - Like him, but feel he's a tad overrated here since he's overlooked by BCB.
Rafique - I know he meant a lot to BD when he played etc. - but still a tad overrated.

Underrated:
Riyad - Partly himself to blame since he played some 'selfish' knocks. But I don't think many still regard him as a good potential #3 as I do.
Shafiul - his ability as a swing/seam bowler is underrated here IMO.
Mosharaff Hossain - why doesn't anyone talk of him at all? He performs consistently even more than Enamul Jr. probably.
Jahirul Islam - another player whom I see as a fine prospect
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