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  #51  
Old July 16, 2012, 11:24 PM
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Jeesh, look at the Irish bowling. They also used at least 3 spinners in both match and they bowled a fair # of overs and some of them had decent figured. I'd hazard there was plenty in it for the spinners (bounce and going by the texture of the pitch from pics, some turn too). Not having seen visual evidence I am not ready concede yet
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  #52  
Old July 16, 2012, 11:34 PM
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Plus with Shak, Razzak, Riyadh and Nasir and a bit of Ash thrown in, we have 5 viable spin options. We need to have at least 3 pacers from that perspective. Zia is getting the Farhaz Reza slot to show what he can do.
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  #53  
Old July 17, 2012, 03:41 AM
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Good work Jee.
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  #54  
Old July 17, 2012, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Plus with Shak, Razzak, Riyadh and Nasir and a bit of Ash thrown in, we have 5 viable spin options. We need to have at least 3 pacers from that perspective. Zia is getting the Farhaz Reza slot to show what he can do.
Zia isn't getting in as a specialist pacer, rather a part timer.. That much back up pace department must have even if we play with 2 specialist pacers.
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  #55  
Old July 17, 2012, 04:21 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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that's the thing, if you go with 2 specialist pacers they have to be quality and turn up everyday otherwise you need a 3rd pace option even if they are just a part timer, they need to be at least reasonable though.

the fact is BD are very fortunate to have shakib, a guy who is good enough of a batsman to be in the top 5 and a good enough bowler to basically be the #1 bowler it means BD should be able to take an extra bowling option. so we have shakib and sunny/razzak and 2 specialist pacers. that should be a definate, the final spot can then be decided on pitch, if it's a pacers pitch then take another pacer, if it's a spinners one then go with a spinner.

in one-dayers and t20s we can probably take shakib, sunny and razzak into a match but in tests we can't, razzak has shown he's not a test match bowler. what it comes down to in tests is taking wickets, you have to take 20 wickets to win, so really whoever is the better wicket-taker should be that last spot. a spinner who can't take wickets in test will be just as much of a liability (perhaps more) than a pacer who can't take wickets. why perhaps more? because the opposition will probably score slower against them meaning they'll take longer to get their runs and thus declare leaving less time for BD to chase the runs (even thought that's a really bad way of thinking and i realise this means more chance of drawing but we want to win not draw).

and shahadat is not an option he has a test match strike rate of 71, he is not a wicket-taking bowler, he might take a haul of wickets on occassion but it's balanced out by his overall high strike rate. i'd take a bowler who takes 3 wickets every match over a bowler who takes no wickets for 5 matches then a 5 wicket haul in the next match.
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  #56  
Old July 18, 2012, 05:48 AM
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Bangladesh Spin options:

Shakib
Razzak
Elias Sunny
Riyad
Nasir
Ashraful


Alhamdulillah! All of them have proven to be effective many times, you have a lot of variety already here. It should suffiseth me thinks...
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  #57  
Old July 18, 2012, 07:15 AM
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We don't need more than one specialist spinners. Because we have Shakib for any type of matches. Ryad also effective in all types but he isn't used enough in Test matches. He even got five wickets in a Test match innings against West Indies at his debut in 2009. Nasir also joined the team as a alrounder and effective as well. Ashraful's leg spin can give break through. So only one can be selected from Razzak or Sunny.
On te other hand Ziaur can support the pacers with his medium. And only one pacer should be taken as a partner of Mashrafi.
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  #58  
Old July 18, 2012, 10:40 AM
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That ll make a balanced side-if we can find a big hitting pace bowling allrounder-not sure if Ziaur is there yet. And also if we can work on the skills of Mahmudullah and Nasir. Its never too late to develop. Spin bowling is a lot to do with mindset and approach. If one of our two off spinners can perform like Hafeez then we have a very decentlineup.
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  #59  
Old July 18, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
that's the thing, if you go with 2 specialist pacers they have to be quality and turn up everyday otherwise you need a 3rd pace option even if they are just a part timer, they need to be at least reasonable though.
Even if you have 2 quality specialist pacers, still you need to have a pace/medium pace part timer preferably an all rounder. Because you need to also cater for injury during Mach, Off days even of a quality pacer, too pace friendly conditions etc Question here is about a 3rd specialist pacer or a third part time pacer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
the fact is BD are very fortunate to have shakib, a guy who is good enough of a batsman to be in the top 5 and a good enough bowler to basically be the #1 bowler it means BD should be able to take an extra bowling option. so we have shakib and sunny/razzak and 2 specialist pacers. that should be a definate, the final spot can then be decided on pitch, if it's a pacers pitch then take another pacer, if it's a spinners one then go with a spinner.
That's the main premise of this discussion. I feel even if its a pace friendly pitch still we need to go with above setup. Because our pacers can hardly use the conditions and the third specialist pacer will just be a waste of a position, while the third spinner is still expected to do better than him. While the MP all rounder won't do that bad than a third specialist pacer with ball and be usefull with the bat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
in one-dayers and t20s we can probably take shakib, sunny and razzak into a match but in tests we can't, razzak has shown he's not a test match bowler. what it comes down to in tests is taking wickets, you have to take 20 wickets to win, so really whoever is the better wicket-taker should be that last spot. a spinner who can't take wickets in test will be just as much of a liability (perhaps more) than a pacer who can't take wickets. why perhaps more? because the opposition will probably score slower against them meaning they'll take longer to get their runs and thus declare leaving less time for BD to chase the runs (even thought that's a really bad way of thinking and i realise this means more chance of drawing but we want to win not draw).
We have a lots of wicket taking spinning options to replace razzak in test matches, than an additional specialist pacer as the 5 th bowler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
and shahadat is not an option he has a test match strike rate of 71, he is not a wicket-taking bowler, he might take a haul of wickets on occassion but it's balanced out by his overall high strike rate. i'd take a bowler who takes 3 wickets every match over a bowler who takes no wickets for 5 matches then a 5 wicket haul in the next match.
I would love to have that too... Theoretically that makes good sense. Practically we don't have a pacer who will take 3 wickets every match, so we have to take a pacer who make occasional but miraculous performance and that gives us a fair chance to win the match.... Any way we aren't able to create a winning situation even once in a blue moon. So that occasional performer can create that situation once in a while at least. So at this moment I will go for the later, the best type currently available....
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  #60  
Old July 18, 2012, 05:20 PM
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I dream of our Murali, Mendis and Warne in one team..

Well done, Sunny!
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  #61  
Old July 18, 2012, 09:54 PM
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3 spinners anyone? Hehe.
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  #62  
Old July 18, 2012, 10:10 PM
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touche jeesh But shobai to ar Irish na.
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  #63  
Old July 19, 2012, 04:32 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Yesterday we played an interesting combination a lot of us didnt anticipate.

Batsman
Batsman
All Rounder Spin
Keeper Batsman
All Rounder Spin
All Rounder Spin
All Rounder Pace
Bowler Pace
Bowler Spin
Bowler Spin
Bowler Pace

Its good for T20. We just have to sacrifice 1 bowler or 1 all rounder for a batsmen in ODI's. But we can work on Zia's batting, and maybe of Mashrafe and Elias (Who avgs 23 in FC) this could even work in ODIs
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  #64  
Old July 19, 2012, 05:17 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Yesterday we played an interesting combination a lot of us didnt anticipate.

Batsman
Batsman
All Rounder Spin
Keeper Batsman
All Rounder Spin
All Rounder Spin
All Rounder Pace
Bowler Pace
Bowler Spin
Bowler Spin
Bowler Pace

Its good for T20. We just have to sacrifice 1 bowler or 1 all rounder for a batsmen in ODI's. But we can work on Zia's batting, and maybe of Mashrafe and Elias (Who avgs 23 in FC) this could even work in ODIs
let elias focus on his bowling for now, he's doing great, don't want anything interfering atm, when he's more experienced and has put in the great performances and has proven he can handle it all long term then maybe work on his batting, atm he gets in as a specialist bowler, we have others to bat.
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  #65  
Old September 24, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Good 7 wicket hall for Enamul Haque Jnr. When on song the guy is the best spinner in the country. But the trouble is getting him on song. Too inconsistent. Still he is 25 and has over 300 first class wickets. We still have time to sort him out. At least he could be a part of our test team.
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  #66  
Old September 24, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Good 7 wicket hall for Enamul Haque Jnr. When on song the guy is the best spinner in the country. But the trouble is getting him on song. Too inconsistent. Still he is 25 and has over 300 first class wickets. We still have time to sort him out. At least he could be a part of our test team.
He's definitely earned his spot for the Test team against the WI. Razzak is just in limited overs games so that helps Enamul.
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  #67  
Old September 24, 2012, 11:47 PM
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This is debatable but i feel technically Enamul is the best spinner in the country. Most of our SLA's wait for the batsman to make mistakes. Enamul is a rare type who can actually force the batsman to make mistakes. Big difference between the two approaches. The guy can extract a lot of turn, has a good arm ball. Needs to add some variation, maybe the one which turns the other way.

At Under 19 level, the guy was the best bowler/spinner in the tournament. RM had said this guy has the potential to become one of the best spinners in the world. Would be beneficial for Enamul to work with the likes of RM and Saqlain. Still plenty of time. Guys like Swann, Herath, Ajmal, Botha have all bloomed in their late 20's.
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  #68  
Old September 24, 2012, 11:53 PM
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This is what he can do what so many of our other bowlers cant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE2tdQP9U9Q
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  #69  
Old September 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
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Absolutely Jeesh bro. Debatable. I haven't compared stats of Shakib with Elias yet but in terms of hustling wickets and runs and performing when it matters Shakib would outperform Alias "Sydney Bristow" Sunny anyday.

Good dig, but then again had you not dug it up, it wud'uv remained in obscurity and thus has no leverage in terms of Tiger's uphill rising to upcoming Superstardom in World Cricket
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  #70  
Old September 25, 2012, 01:53 AM
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We have all bits and pieces spinners like Shakib, Riyad in the team for their all round capabilities, but Raz and Sunny was brought in as specialist spinners but they sometimes contribute by taking wickets but still not effective like Ajmal or hafeez.
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  #71  
Old September 25, 2012, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
We have all bits and pieces spinners like Shakib, Riyad in the team for their all round capabilities, but Raz and Sunny was brought in as specialist spinners but they sometimes contribute by taking wickets but still not effective like Ajmal or hafeez.
think it's harsh to call shakib a bits and pieces spinner, he's a genuine allrounder and is one of the best spinners in tests and ODIs. sunny hasn't been around long enough to figure out, he's had some great performances and some just ok ones. raz is a ODI and t20 spinner only.

also ajmal is the best spinner in the world atm by a margin, so tough to compare the average spinner to him, most won't get to his standard.
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  #72  
Old September 25, 2012, 06:41 AM
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Rafique had tipped Mosharraf Hossain Rubel as his successor. He was actually pretty decent until his silly decision to retire to play for ICL. In that time Shakib has established himself as our number 1 spin bowler. He has surged ahead, and like Gowza said is way ahead of our other spinners. BCB now seems to be keen on developing Elias Sunny-which is fair considering the guys impressive start. Razzak should be the other choice in ODI/T20's while we should try Enamul as third choice in tests.

After that Arafat Sunny, Shuvo, Saqlain Sajib, Nabil Samad. Unfortunately its all SLA's. This is why Saqlain needs to spend time with guys like Sohag Gazi, Noor Hossain. Unless we add variety to our attack we will remain very predictable and one dimensional
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  #73  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:39 PM
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One clear outcome from World Cup T20-we need to improve our variety in spin bowling. BCB seems to be missing the trick. They have picked Enamul Jnr and Saqlain Sajib for the A team. Its true these two deserve to be picked-they are the next 2 best spinners in line. But we should take a chance with guys like Sohag Gazi and Noor Hossain. Unless we take a chance with OS and LS, we will never get.

Sri Lanka for instance has taken a massive risk in playing Akila Dananjaya. He hasnt even played a FC match. But the guy could end up huge spin prospect for Sri Lanka. SL may not have a Murali but they have three potent OS in Senanayake, Randiv and Akila. They have a quality SLA in Herath. A good underrated leggie in form of Kaushal Lokuarachchi. And then the mysterious Ajantha Mendis. So talk about variety in spin.

BCB is just not getting it. Forget short term success with WI. Take a chance with offies and leggies.
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  #74  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:44 PM
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Yes guys like sohag, mahmudul and nur also need chances to develop. We have good SLAs but the other varieties need to be ready if we need to introduce variety so they definitely need to be given experience and development to.
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  #75  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
One clear outcome from World Cup T20-we need to improve our variety in spin bowling. BCB seems to be missing the trick. They have picked Enamul Jnr and Saqlain Sajib for the A team. Its true these two deserve to be picked-they are the next 2 best spinners in line. But we should take a chance with guys like Sohag Gazi and Noor Hossain. Unless we take a chance with OS and LS, we will never get.

Sri Lanka for instance has taken a massive risk in playing Akila Dananjaya. He hasnt even played a FC match. But the guy could end up huge spin prospect for Sri Lanka. SL may not have a Murali but they have three potent OS in Senanayake, Randiv and Akila. They have a quality SLA in Herath. A good underrated leggie in form of Kaushal Lokuarachchi. And then the mysterious Ajantha Mendis. So talk about variety in spin.

BCB is just not getting it. Forget short term success with WI. Take a chance with offies and leggies.
S prasanna is another good leg spin prospect for SL.
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