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  #1  
Old November 3, 2006, 11:24 AM
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Default Steep Learning Curve

It has been a good 6 years we got our test status. But truely it has been 3 years since we have a good stable coach, decent doemstic format, selectors etc. In international cricket we are still way behind the big boys. Once in a while we surprise them but most of the time we can't compete with them. Be it in Test or ODIs. We have unbelievable talented players. yet the learning curve seemed to be a little steep. Why is that?

We all know about having a strong Domestic cricket is one of the reason and therefore I will not focus on that. I have another additional theory.

Looking at the history, each new nation coming into the big leagues had trouble initially to compete with the other established teams. Only after a decade they started to show their potential and become a super power themselves. Not only they became stable but they also regularly performed. They are able to maintain their standard. I am talking about NZ, SL even WI. So we are in the same boat as once they were. Expecting big consistant performance within next 5 years is just premature.

Each team coming in to tests had at least one or two performers who were consistant. Boys coming in had a role model to follow. They learnt from their peers who were already established in the team. I will focus on SL. Before, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Tharanga there were Atapattu, Jayasuriya, De Silva, Mahanama, Kuruppu. Before them there were Ranatunga, Madugalle, Mendis. Waves of talented players replaced the great ones. If the younger ones failed the older ones picked up the slack grinded the matches out. We don't expect a college graduate to know everything when he joins in the work force. Things he/she learns on the job are so valuable that it can not be measurable. Bangladesh never enjoyed any player of that calibre who could be a mentor. Bulbul, Akram, Naimur, K Mahmud tried their best but were not in the same standards of international stars. They were not consistant either. Boys coming in had no where to turn to. Aftab, Ashraful had no shoulder to cry on. They are learning the hard way by themselves. Talent wise they are no less than Tharanga; age wise they are older to Tharanga; experience wise they are so much richer than Tharanga; and performance wise they are no where close to Tharanga.

I believe the only thing Tharanga enjoys that Ashraful doesn't is the influence of the senior players. Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Jayawardene all taught him somethings that one can't learn in text books. The match tempartment. When to grind out, when to attack, how to attack etc. Without this knowledge no matter how mcuh talent one may possess they can't perform consistantly.

Teams produce players like Tharanga consistantly because they have stable consistant senior players who battle together. Australia's new generation like Clark watches Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist day in day out perform. England's Bell, Strauss watched Tresco, Vaugh, Hussain and others before they came in to the lime light. They saw how much hard work is needed to succeed in this level. The following comment of Clark only reassures my theory.
"All the young guys in this squad and in the Test squad are very lucky because we have some great players in the squad...In our team, any opportunity you get to play cricket with them or be around them can only help you as a young cricketer. Being part of this Australian team, I am very lucky."
"It is important to maximise your time with those guys - Glenn McGrath, Ricky Ponting, Shane Warne and Matthew Hayden in the Test team. These guys have been very successful for such a long time. So I guess, if you can't learn off them, you will never learn."

We don't have that type of influence in our BD team. If Ash was in the Australian team, I believe he would average a minimum of 35 for sure.

Bashar our only senior player in the top order is not consistant himself. How can he help the other batsmen? We are witnessing Shariar Nafees bloom in front of our own eyes. He may be the one whom younger players coming in to the team would look up to. We will be mediocre against the big boys untill we have that type of consistant influence in our team.

To feed the short-term we have forfeited the long-term. We thrust our younger players in to national team and demand performance. Since we don't have the seniors who can guide the younger generations in the field, I hope the younger generations are nurtured properly and are given more opportunities in the form of A team and development squad tours. We have to make it mandatory for our players to participate in the domestic league as long as possible. The day will come that the boys like SN, Aftab will become the corner stones of our teams. Then the younger generations will have players to look up to and learn the tricks. Only then we will be consistant.
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Last edited by Tigers_eye; November 3, 2006 at 11:29 AM..
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  #2  
Old November 3, 2006, 11:44 AM
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Can't deny the necessities of senior players' presence in a team and their guidance.
According to you the learning curve also largely depends on the presence of consistent senior players and their performance.
Then I believe that our batsmen will never learn and the cycle will always be incomplete. So, we should not have any more expectations till our Ash,Aftab goes to their thirties and start performing. Till then our expectations should be all the way to bottom.
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  #3  
Old November 3, 2006, 11:55 AM
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Good post Tigers_eye bhai. Well, we used to have players like Akram, Bulbul, Nannu. I am not comparing them with the likes of Ranatunga or Desilva but the question remains, the next generation we had after Akram, Bulbul, did they learn anything from them? That generation is totally lost.
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Old November 3, 2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadi
Good post Tigers_eye bhai. Well, we used to have players like Akram, Bulbul, Nannu. I am not comparing them with the likes of Ranatunga or Desilva but the question remains, the next generation we had after Akram, Bulbul, did they learn anything from them? That generation is totally lost.
Shahriar Hussein, Mehrab Hussein generation is lost already.
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  #5  
Old November 3, 2006, 12:20 PM
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Tigers_eye,
Thanks for your such a well written article. You saw the team from the perspective of a Royal Tiger's eye.
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  #6  
Old November 3, 2006, 12:43 PM
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Thank you everyone.

I am one of the worst critic of Ash. Time and again we say, "When will he learn? How long will it take for him to learn?" Same thing to Aftab, Alok and other younger players. But the truth is, it is not easy to learn with out someone showing the ropes. Only the exceptional ones learn by themselves through hard work and they must be self motivated. These boys weren't prepared right and was thrust in to the team too early. I hope for Sakib, Mehrab Jr., Mushfiq, Forhad, Nazmus Sadat, Zahir, Tamim all batsmen have plenty of opportunity in the A team, development squad and domestic level before we start expecting consistant results.

We want them to perform like Ponting from day one. we forget Ponting had the opportunity to see players like Waughs, Taylor, Border etc to play, whereas, these boys watches Bashar day dreaming while running between the wickets. Success can only build on self-motivated, hard worker players like S Nafees.
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Old November 3, 2006, 12:47 PM
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Good article Tigers_eye, I have some observations which I will share with you.
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  #8  
Old November 3, 2006, 01:17 PM
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Intersting point to raise.

I agree that we don't have senior players of the caliber of Ranatunga, De Silva. But there is another couple of points that I think are worth consideration.

First, our performance curve do not have the same time scale as that of SL or NZ. In those days, teams like SL or NZ had to wait for years to play against teams likes WI or India or Pakistan. We didn't have to wait that long. That's why when in years, NZ had to wait for 26 years to win their first test, we didn't have to. However, both these teams played about the same number of tests before winning the first one. In short we play a lot more match than those other teams. So our time scale should be faster.

Secondly, I don't think it is as important to have players like Ranatunga in your team. These days you have access to almost anybody's video at moments notice. You get to watch cricket matches around the world, all year long. If you want to learn, you can utilize every opportunity you get. Besides, players like Ranatunga played in the Dhaka league long time back and our players saw them up close at that time. So even though I think not having great players is part of the problem for younger players like Ash and Aftab, that's not the whole story.

I think the biggest problem for Ash and Aftab and the likes is the stardom. We the fans are crazy in supporting them after they score a 50 (or sometimes even 30) and that makes them "all time greats" in their mind. I think every performance should be evaluated the right way, using the correct scale. I think this is one of the biggest problem for Ash's continued non-performance. Unfortunately, Bangladesh is in a stage when every win is something special and who ever contributes in that win, we make him special.

I mentioned in another thread that Bangladeshi players are not learning as much as they should from the matches they play (win or lose). Otherwise, we could see a more consistent performance from them long time back. I don't expect them to score a 100 everytime they go out to play. But I don't expect them to repeat the same mistake again and again and again. I don't expect them to play the same stupid shot again and again (remember Aftab's out in CT, after building the innings?)

This CT, we have seen players strugle in the middle and even then build the innings and win the match in the end? Do you think any one of our players learned anything from that? We will see the result pretty soon, when we play against Zimbos.
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  #9  
Old November 3, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Sleep Learning Curve


Looks like they are learning fast than people give credit for. if not sleep, atleast how to relax.

Anyway bagh Bhai, looks like good thread. I promise I will read this weekend.

But one thing I noticed that I think I can comment a lit bit,

Quote:
I believe the only thing Tharanga enjoys that Ashraful doesn't is the influence of the senior players. Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Jayawardene all taught him somethings that one can't learn in text books. The match tempartment. When to grind out, when to attack, how to attack etc. Without this knowledge no matter how mcuh talent one may possess they can't perform consistantly.
Its very unfair to Ash that he is stuck with us. Can we ship him to Sri Lanka intead? It will be good for his career, rather than wasting his valuable talent in Bangladesh. We can live with Tharanga instead. We can do that little sacrifice for our Ash, don't we?

Last edited by Fazal; November 3, 2006 at 01:57 PM..
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  #10  
Old November 3, 2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Its very unfair to Ash that he is stuck with us. Can we ship him to Sri Lanka intead? It will be good for his career, rather than wasting his valuable talent in Bangladesh. We can live with Tharanga instead. We can do that little sacrifice for our Ash, don't we?
lol
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  #11  
Old November 3, 2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal

Its very unfair to Ash that he is stuck with us. Can we ship him to Sri Lanka intead? It will be good for his career, rather than wasting his valuable talent in Bangladesh. We can live with Tharanga instead. We can do that little sacrifice for our Ash, don't we?
Is not it unfair to compare a talent like Ashrafool with an ordinary batsman like Tharanga. Ash has more fan than Tharanga. People remembers every stroke Ashrafool played. Who knows Tharanga. Kamranga is more known than Tharanga.
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  #12  
Old November 3, 2006, 05:48 PM
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Sensible makes too much sense. Yes, we have video on how Michael Jordan tore down a defense, we have footages on how he was the defensive player of the year, yet NBA super stars can't get to that standard of committment, they can't grind out games or pace their games so that they can make the last shot that counts. Whereas, just by watching him day-in day-out, a skinny kid from rural arkansas who played college in Univ of central Arkansas became a super star (Scottie Pippen). He became MJ's side kick. We have yet to find the next MJ, heck next Scottie.

Self motivation is a must for any athlete. One gets motivated when he/she sees someone working hard and performing. Ash, Aftab didn't get the chance. Hopefully, Mehrab and Co. will from Rajin, SN.

But I agree on that stardom factor.
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Old November 3, 2006, 06:56 PM
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well said tigers_eye. a near perfect analysis
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Old November 4, 2006, 02:09 AM
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Default Well said ...

Good post Tigers_eye. The following particularly caught my attention:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
To feed the short-term we have forfeited the long-term. We thrust our younger players in to national team and demand performance. Since we don't have the seniors who can guide the younger generations in the field, I hope the younger generations are nurtured properly and are given more opportunities in the form of A team and development squad tours
To this I'd like to add that we fans need to stop annointing every promising U-19 player as the next big thing. We need to give those young, talented but under-performing players who are already in the side, a good run with proper guidance. Faisal Hossein Dickens did not get an extended run. Tushar is always coming and going. Rana is not getting A-tours. Meanwhile we fans are gushing about Saqib and Farhad (some are even mentioning Tamim). Never mind that they are doing exactly what the Rajins and Ranas did (perform well initially, only to ...)
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Old November 4, 2006, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye

We don't have that type of influence in our BD team. If Ash was in the Australian team, I believe he would average a minimum of 35 for sure.

Bashar our only senior player in the top order is not consistant himself. How can he help the other batsmen? We are witnessing Shariar Nafees bloom in front of our own eyes. He may be the one whom younger players coming in to the team would look up to. We will be mediocre against the big boys untill we have that type of consistant influence in our team.

To feed the short-term we have forfeited the long-term. We thrust our younger players in to national team and demand performance. Since we don't have the seniors who can guide the younger generations in the field, I hope the younger generations are nurtured properly and are given more opportunities in the form of A team and development squad tours. We have to make it mandatory for our players to participate in the domestic league as long as possible. The day will come that the boys like SN, Aftab will become the corner stones of our teams. Then the younger generations will have players to look up to and learn the tricks. Only then we will be consistant.
http://www.banglacricket.com/html/article.php?item=323

beat you to it by a year and a half?
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Old November 4, 2006, 03:08 AM
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good post tiger_eye bhai. But I need to add something.
Comparing with SL is not justifiable. I think SL is most strongest associate team ever. Anura Tenekun, Watemuni, Tissera, Somachandra de silva could have walked in any test team at that time bar may be WI. Can we mention one of our pre-test era player to that. Moreover SL was benefitted because most of the team visiting sub continent used to play there. And also before the long distance air trip evry ashes visitors use to play in SL. so they have much better quality and experince than us at the beginning. Same is also true for Zimbo. In fact Zimbo has a test player in Traicos. Hick opted for England and also K Curren, Houghton was considered as good enough player to play test for England.Thus Zimbo and SL have much better quality and experince than us at the beginning.
I would rather like to compare ourselve with NZ and WI. They also have some advantage over us. Some of NZealander and W Indian has the experience in playing better league than their domestic league. In fact one of the NZealander was Wisden player of the year before NZ get test status. Sir L Constatine regulerly played in Lanchashire league supposedly the strongest local league in England. The only experience our player had playing in our domestic league.
the other problem that we are playing too quickly. Players could not sort it out their problem in net before the face the opposition again or adapt in foriegn condition. for example WI play their last test in their first visit to England in August. Though they arrive in May. NZ were in England for the whole summer in 1926 before they got test status. We are handicapped in all these regard and have a steep learning curve.
But what we have done to overcome the handicap and smooth the learning curve?
Someone mentioned about watching video. If that was true, every body would have become Tiger wood. As tiger_eye correctly pointed out, u can not simply learn by watching video. We need to have the experience to watch them 24 hrs how they prepare. Playing with Ranatungas, Aqrams enabled Akram, Pilot, Durjoy to win the ICC tropy and gain test status.
we downgraded highly competative Dhaka Premiar league.To put emphasis on first class 4 day match. Can some one let me know when was the last time a quality foreign player played in Bangladesh for the whole season or more than half the season. Arunlal, Lamba , Jayasuria regulerly played in Dhaka league. Ranatunga, Akram, Fairbrother played more than enough match in Dhaka. The less comeptative NCL is making our new generation of player more soft. I do not think players have same pressure playing for Dhaka againest CTG as opposod to playing for Abahoni againest Mohamedan. If u look at our test team all the players taged with fighter title (Rafiq, Pilot, Sumon, JO) have grown up playing in Premiar league of the old. So when getting become tough, they try to sort it out than playing irresponsbly like Ash or Aftab. If Ash grown up playing match for Abahoni- Mohamedan, by this time he would have been ready to take the pressure of supporters.
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Old November 5, 2006, 11:32 AM
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thebest has some excellent points. During our domestic season, our elite class players are playing for three different teams in three different leagues (CCL, NCL, and Dhaka Premier league). This is preventing them from developing a sense of belonging to any particular team which is a must for competitive team sports.

We have seen enough of CCL to say scrap it out. In NCL, players generally play for individual achivements, not for the team. It will be lot better if BCB parsues Dhaka league committee to expand the league into 20/20 and four day matches too. This way players will be attached to a particular team and coaching staff for a whole season and will also have financial motivation to do well.

For the purpose of developing the game country wide and grooming local talents, BCB has National Championship (inter district league, where Dhaka premier league players don't play) that can be run side by side with Dhaka league.
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Old November 27, 2006, 08:24 AM
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I forgot to add another thing. All the test playing nation except us (zimbabue used to play as Rhodesia in SAo) has the experience of playing longer version before gaining test status regulerly. It enabled them to adapt the demand of test cricket. Moreover unlike us they switched from longer version to shorter version. We just did the opposite. This has negative impact. Because our players get away with poor technique; did not learn the importance of staying in the crease for the whole day. You can not do it overnight. Unfortunately even after playing longer version of the game for five years we learned little. That hurts. May be fans also should be blamed. We give more importance to Ash's stroke filled 158 or Aftab's 81 than Nafis's restrained 121. Under the circumstances that 121 was more important. But did Nafiz appreciated enough? This encourged players for Kamikaze every time they go to bat.
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Old November 27, 2006, 01:18 PM
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Why do we dig up old threads?
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Old November 27, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Kamranga is more than Tharanga - say of the day

On the topic : Yes.. we do need role models..of our own country..whom our young players will follow !
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