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  #1  
Old October 14, 2006, 01:33 PM
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Default For those fans of playing 'em early (the anti "buira") gang

Shahriar Nafees and Md. Ashraful were discovered in the same Wahidul Gani talent search/camp. One has, for a BD batsman, started to show remarkable consistency and hunger for runs. The other continues to drive fans nuts with his profligate ways that belie prodiguous talent. One was introduced to the national side early, skipped education with some early success. The other was brought up through a steady diet of age-based cricket and A-team tours and thus was able to keep up with school. Guess which one is looking good right now?

All you fans of play them NOW. Play Mushfique now. Play Mehrab now. Get rid of "buiras" - this should give you something to contemplate on. Should we purge the non-performing "buiras" (btw, we should call them veterans because many of the "buiras" are pretty young), and play the youngsters now? After all, out of fire is forged the toughest steel (or Tendu). Or is it better to be patient, take the losses with the inconsistent "buiras" while PROPERLY grooming the younger talented ones. I definitely advocate the latter. The payoff will be worth it (as it appears to be with SN, Shahadat)

You'll find Dav agreeing with me. Here's what Whatmore had to say about SN: "He's enjoyed the opportunity to tour other countries before he got the chance with the national team and has received valuable instructions at the academy and A levels."
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  #2  
Old October 14, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Food for thought...........
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  #3  
Old October 14, 2006, 02:26 PM
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Unfortunately, the leader of this anti-buira clan, you-know-who, will not rest until all the buiras are replaced immediately. In fact, any batsman who is not "entertaining" or "attractive" enough, regardless of age, should also be booted.
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  #4  
Old October 14, 2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatebreed
Unfortunately, the leader of this anti-buira clan, you-know-who, will not rest until all the buiras are replaced immediately. In fact, any batsman who is not "entertaining" or "attractive" enough, regardless of age, should also be booted.
I guess that would be me.
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Old October 14, 2006, 04:04 PM
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I guess that would be me.
Not really..
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  #6  
Old October 14, 2006, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Shahriar Nafees and Md. Ashraful were discovered in the same Wahidul Gani talent search/camp. One has, for a BD batsman, started to show remarkable consistency and hunger for runs. The other continues to drive fans nuts with his profligate ways that belie prodiguous talent. One was introduced to the national side early, skipped education with some early success. The other was brought up through a steady diet of age-based cricket and A-team tours and thus was able to keep up with school. Guess which one is looking good right now?

All you fans of play them NOW. Play Mushfique now. Play Mehrab now. Get rid of "buiras" - this should give you something to contemplate on. Should we purge the non-performing "buiras" (btw, we should call them veterans because many of the "buiras" are pretty young), and play the youngsters now? After all, out of fire is forged the toughest steel (or Tendu). Or is it better to be patient, take the losses with the inconsistent "buiras" while PROPERLY grooming the younger talented ones. I definitely advocate the latter. The payoff will be worth it (as it appears to be with SN, Shahadat)

You'll find Dav agreeing with me. Here's what Whatmore had to say about SN: "He's enjoyed the opportunity to tour other countries before he got the chance with the national team and has received valuable instructions at the academy and A levels."
Very logical conclusions. However I think it also depends on the individual to a great extent. Meaning, ashraful might have been more successful had he had more brains ( no offence intended). I m not comparing but tendulkar was also thrust in at a young age and he got through because he was extremely talented and converted talent to scores. Ashraful althouth talented but not like tendulkar for sure has not bee able to convert his talent into scores because of his mental blcok. He only knows how to play crazy and hit everything or be submissive and block all day. He is a bit premeditated on his batting. If he could get over this mental block and play according the balls and situation he would be much better. He needs to be sent back to domestic league and neeeds to tour countries with the A team to gain back his form and maybe fix his mental problem ( no pun intended).
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  #7  
Old October 14, 2006, 05:53 PM
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In this context I recognize McInnes' views on playing young talents at different levels of cricket atleast for 2 yrs and then give them a chance to play at int'l stage. If BCB prepares a strategy of how the talents would be managed this would be a good choice. However, given the situation in BD cricket, where tigers are desperately seeking an established 11 during the turbulent initial stages, that strategy could not be chosen as tigers still have not found the right established combination of players. That is why (I guess) some young talents had to be drafted in int'l stage early.
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  #8  
Old October 14, 2006, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
You'll find Dav agreeing with me.
Oh really? Thats what Dav also said

Quote:
Dav Whatmore had no doubt that the current crop came with a more aggressive outlook, more fearless attitude. "It's not a criticism of the older guys," he said at the end of the day, "they've done a lot for Bangladesh cricket. But the younger guys seem to play with a lot less pressure. They play for the day; they have some skill and a strong desire. They now have to show they can do it against the bigger teams." -- cricinfo
Ofcouse there is a diff between Ash and Nafess. And that is the diff in quality of grey material in their head than anything else. Ash is in the middle of his profession career versus Nafees is in the early stage of his professional career. Ash squandered lots of opportunities... where as Nafees rearly miss his opportunity he gets(so far)

And how Nafees is introduced into the big league is very similar to the way Mehrab, Sakib and (Mushfiq for fuiture) is introduced into the league. Actullay they (new breed) are introduced into the big league with much more exposure to the u-17, u-19, team-a. than Ash, Rajin were introduced. Nafis and Nafees was in between these two groups.

By going through this process, they are better equiped to fight against similar talented players (of same age group) and survive at each level, and they know how to take advantage when opportunity is given. Thats how they came to the top. Its similar as how butter/cream is made out of milk. Whereas Ash came to the team, he came for for pure talent, no concrete proven record of survival or experience like these boys. Thats why he is failing more often. Talent and proven success record in lower level combined should be the criteria for promotion. Ash got a triple promotion solely based on talent and no track record to back him up, he didn't have to fight for his position, It was given to him in silver platter.

And thats why we see Nafess's success rate is much higher than his old generation of players including Ash ( who have lots of experience by now). And thats why there is more chance of success by Mehrab, Sakib and Co, than their older generation players. Beacuse they are better prepared to fight back and retain their position; they were not given any double promotions. Ofcouser there is no guarantee all of them will be successful.

In future generation, the new players will be much more ready than Sakib and co. Nafees (the current new dog) and Ash (old dog) again proved that there is nothing to gain giving repeated chances to old dogs who hardly learn any new tricks. Its better to rebuild the team with these new generation of players as they learn from their mistakes. And according to me, the above comment by Dav just validate my locig.

btw a players age is not dictated by their physial age. Its by their mental age as well as their professional age.

Last edited by Fazal; October 15, 2006 at 09:15 AM..
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  #9  
Old October 14, 2006, 07:29 PM
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Ash: thrust in to the National too early. Agreed. What was his age? Official one 16+?
SN: Not too eraly? Can't agree with you on this one cause in any other stablished country that would still be too early. Anyways, for the sake of arguement when did he crack in to starting lineup? I guess 19+.

Mehrab Jr., Sakib, Farhad when were they included in the national team. 16+??? I don't think so. They all are 19+. For Mushfiq yes it is too early and everyone on this forum knows my stand on Mushfiq's inclusion.

So these boys resemble more like Ash or SN to you?
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  #10  
Old October 14, 2006, 07:32 PM
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The other 19 boys Sadat, Zahir and mehrab jr. to some extent travels with the acadamy squad. Will travel with the A team also.
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  #11  
Old October 14, 2006, 11:02 PM
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Razab Bhai, this is probably the most nonsensical post you ever made.

Sakib, Mehrab, and even Nazmus Sadat, all played lot more A-team, FC, club, and U-19 matches than SN did before his international debut. Unlike SN, all three had training stints in Australia. And, as mentioned by other posters already, none of those boys are below 19 years of age at this point.
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  #12  
Old October 14, 2006, 11:56 PM
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I think the current crop of new players, Farhad, Saqik and gang, will go a long way...as long as the world (esp the bdeshi fans) doesnt pay too much attn to them too soon. Ashraful was given too much attn at too young a age and hence lost whatever little brains he had........
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  #13  
Old October 15, 2006, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Razab Bhai, this is probably the most nonsensical post you ever made.

Sakib, Mehrab, and even Nazmus Sadat, all played lot more A-team, FC, club, and U-19 matches than SN did before his international debut. Unlike SN, all three had training stints in Australia. And, as mentioned by other posters already, none of those boys are below 19 years of age at this point.
Aah but you miss the 2nd point. It's not merely touring that I was talking about but also the education. Notice Dav specifically mentioned A-levels and University. I am advocating that with this younger guys such as Saqib, Mehrab, Sadat, we resist the urge to play em now. Most of these younger player mindsets are not mature enough to handle the pressures of big leagues or the rewars of early success. Our cricket history is full of players who played young, showed early promise only to not fulfill them. Rajin, Ash are examples.

Also I beg to differ on whether this is my most nonsensical post. I'm sure I've said more inane stuff somewhere before
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  #14  
Old October 15, 2006, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Our cricket history is full of players who played young, showed early promise only to not fulfill them. Rajin, Ash are examples.
You are missing the point already pointed out by Fazal. This bunch of newcomers are coming to the national side overcoming a systematic challenge. They proved themseves in U-17, U-19, A, Academy, High performance team. Whereas Ash and Rajin were in the natinal side by double/triple promotion as Fazal explained very nicely. In terms of age, as Tigers_eye mentioned, they are not so younger either as Ash was. Thats why our current crop of new comers are much better equiped and will be more mentaly tough, challenging and success rate will be higher.
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  #15  
Old October 15, 2006, 06:41 AM
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I absolutely agree with Razab.Check out the different members of the teams in the last under-19 world cup. With a few exceptions you will hardly find anyone who broke through to international cricket with age group performances apart from Bangladesh. The reason is simple enough.Age level representation is just a stepping stone to first class cricket. It shouldn't be anything more. This obsession for expecting every 15 year old to be the next Tendulkar, has to be blamed on our irrational expectations as much as our faulty first class system.
Sakib should not have been playing for the national team now. Neither should Mushfiq or for that matter Mehrab.They simply have not played enough first class games. These young pups are still very much in their developmental stages, and they need to be nurtured through domestic cricket. With our penchant for immediate results we are risking the long term career of individuals as well as Bangladesh cricket. A closer look at the trend of cricketers like Kapali, Nazmul and Talha should be constant reminders of the precipitious slopes resulting from this near-sighted policy.
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Old October 15, 2006, 06:48 AM
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I somehow agree with Razab bhai despite some double standard in his post as already mentioned by TheWatcher.

We need youngstars to perform on a consistent basis. It's better if they fight for the place for a longer period and gain some experience. In that process they will understand the value of performance to keep their place.

Now, we are in a rebuilding phase. We have already introduced a good number of youngstars and they are performing well. But we need to keep some buira in our side who are performer.

IMO, Bashar, Aftab, Ashraful, Rafiq, Razzak, Mashrafee, SN should make the core of BD team. They have played for a while and proved their potential. Many of us might argue about Ashraful but I believe he has lot to deliver.

We should think about the future and for the next one year we should use the following bunch of players. No more influx

In ODI, with batting order

SN
Mehrab Jr./Nazmus Sadat (we should experiment against Zimbos to find appropriate pair)
Aftab
Sakib
Bashar
Ashraful
Mushfiq/Masud
Mashrafee
Rafiq
Razzak
Shahdat/Rasel
Farhad

Farhad should play in the playing XI depending on pitch condition and he can replace Rafiq/Razzak/Shahadat/Rasel

In test

SN
JO
Bashar
Aftab
Ashraful
Rajin/Sakib
Masud
Rafiq
Enamul Jr.
Mashrafee
Shahadat
Rasel
Razzak
Mushfiq
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Old October 15, 2006, 07:00 AM
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If I am may jump in here... I have always been against the U-19 to National team drafting. My main reason was that the highest level demands a lot from players and its going to be dificult for a youngster to break into the fold and thats specially true for Bangladesh since our team is inevitably under pressure each and every game and end up loosing way more often than not.

Its not a situation that can be generalized with other countries. When a young player comes into a team he is bound have some stars in his eyes. Those stars die out everytime the team fails to perform. How many times have Ash come into bat under pressure? he could have developed himself better if he had played for Australia caz he would have known someone got his back if he fails and the game would still be won. For Bangladesh thats never been the case. Young players like Rajin, Ash, Nafis Iqbal et al had their spirits crushed with repeated failures and if I may be so bold to say due to improper guidance from the BCB and our captain Sumon.

These young players needed to get into the habit of winning and hence the bigtalks of international exposure at pre national level and the matter of education and growin up kicks in.

The difference between the new crop (SN, Shahadat, Mehrab etc) and the recent new ones (Ash, kapali, Rajin, Nafees) is that the former grp knows how to win. The have tasted it. Its a solid feeling for them where as for the latter grp a win is just like "hawai mithai".
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  #18  
Old October 15, 2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Aah but you miss the 2nd point. It's not merely touring that I was talking about but also the education. Notice Dav specifically mentioned A-levels and University.
When has player's general education become a selection criterion in cricket ? Also what did DW say about player's education and where ?

Anyway, whether those boys want to continue with their education or to ditch it are their personal choices. Despite his early induction in the national team, Mushfiqur Rahim managed to aquire GPA 5 in his HSC exam. So, I guess nobody is holding Sakib or Mehrab back either to pursue their higher education.
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Old October 15, 2006, 10:22 AM
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There is this thing called 'responsibility', which has overburdened Ashraful over the years and Shahriar Nafees had only a single tournament where he was trusted with this 'responsibility'.

I don't know about you, but I fear that Shahriar Nafees will one day go down the same line as Ashraful is going right now. All we need to do is wait with patience.
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Old October 15, 2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwullah
I don't know about you, but I fear that Shahriar Nafees will one day go down the same line as Ashraful is going right now. All we need to do is wait with patience.
And I hope that day comes 12 years from now
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  #21  
Old October 15, 2006, 03:38 PM
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Our old guards (Akram, Bulbul, Nannu, Lipu) also said that patience was preferred in place of too many experiments. At times when BD was desperately looking for wins they did not want to listen to that theory. However, in Faruque era, I guess, the experiments are fewer than previous selectors' times (on avg per tour experiments, I mean). I still believe, McInnes had a vision, which he shared in this forum, in line with developing talents to provide supply to national 11 in 3-5 years time. If BCB follows that path things should be productive, I believe.
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Old October 15, 2006, 04:12 PM
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I would just like to agree with RazabQ on the point that education is important. Education is not a must have criteria to play good cricket but it gives one a better shot at becoming a good cricketer. Just think about it..... if one is to study and play cricket he/she would have to work harder and smarter to make time for both of them and be successful. Also, through education we train our brain to think more systematically. Thus all these gives a cricketer a better chance of succeeding.

As far as bringing in young blood in the squad and replacing experienced and veterans we need to be carefull not to keep doing this dialysis (changing the whole team) every 3-4 years.

It's not easy to say when you bring a young (under 21) player into the national squad, but BCB better well make sure that they have plenty of exposure to international cricket through A team and other exchange program and once they do come into the squade they have enough veterans to guide them and support them to become confident and effective.

How we are going to do all that? The tax payers are paying BCB, the government, and ICC to make sure that they work their butt off to find the solution. On top of that the BC fans are always lending big hand and will continue to do so. Just wait for 3-4 more years and we will see the change.
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  #23  
Old October 15, 2006, 04:57 PM
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It is always better to expose the young players to different levels of the cricket, before being introduced in the real world. We need some patience.

I must admire the consistency SN has shown so far in BD team level. However, before even comparing with Ash, I would wait atleast some more times. We have seen a good number of players in BD team had gone out of grace, performing tremendously for just a year, and next they are out of the scene.
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Old October 16, 2006, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwullah
There is this thing called 'responsibility', which has overburdened Ashraful over the years and Shahriar Nafees had only a single tournament where he was trusted with this 'responsibility'.

I don't know about you, but I fear that Shahriar Nafees will one day go down the same line as Ashraful is going right now. All we need to do is wait with patience.

A view from Zimbabwean perspective!
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