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  #1  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:28 AM
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Angry Yet another deadly Dam from India




সূত্র: দৈনিক যায়যায়দিন


This report made me really mad. We just don't have any way to fight back to these type injustices. What should BD do? Crying to UN won't do anything; neither will begging India to stop work. What will the future BD govt do?
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  #2  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasif
This report made me really mad. We just don't have any way to fight back to these type injustices. What should BD do? Crying to UN won't do anything; neither will begging India to stop work. What will the future BD govt do?
Pool our experts and diplomats, state our case as forcefully as possible and try to have a closely-monitored treaty with India on this.
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  #3  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:39 AM
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India will make sure that our 'titular' governments will not say a single word about it.

Now, its up to us (general Bangladeshi) to do something but I don't know how we can do that.
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  #4  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Well, here is my friday rant..
If BD politicians had any vision they would have taken Prof. Yunus proposal seriously, i.e build a world class port in Chittagong.

I have been thinking about this lately and looking at it from all angles. It reminds me of what Lee Kuan Yew said in his memoir about Port of Singapore . That is another example of a helpless state that had to do something drastic and big to survive economically, politically and strategically in a hostile environment much like what BD will experience for al ong time.

In short, the only way to overcome this is to stop whining . In order to gain respect the only way out is infrastructure development and to build alliance with a superpower. Not the wishy washy relationship that exists between BD and US which is a fault of both BNP and Al, who wants to please so many quarters that they fail to achieve anything concrete NATIONALLY.
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  #5  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:42 AM
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If they had an understanding with BD gov't and still going ahead with such construction without taking into consideration the severe environmental damage it will cause, let alone danger to millions of lives, than obviously India does not care about any bilateral relations with BD.

UN may be spineless to interfere, but under present circumstances we have no choice. We must contact all the nations and authority we can to stop this from progessing any further. Countries like US, UK, China, Japan, etc may be influence India into changing their mind. What else can we do? We're small and powerless to stand up to a bully like India on our own.
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  #6  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:47 AM
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Our politicians are busy only in making their own future smooth. They don't think about greater well fair of country. They won't react in proper quick time. We, the unlucky citizens must wake them up from bloody Kumbhokorno's sleep..............
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  #7  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatebreed
If they had an understanding with BD gov't and still going ahead with such construction without taking into consideration the severe environmental damage it will cause, let alone danger to millions of lives, than obviously India does not care about any bilateral relations with BD.

UN may be spineless to interfere, but under present circumstances we have no choice. We must contact all the nations and authority we can to stop this from progessing any further. Countries like US, UK, China, Japan, etc may be influence India into changing their mind. What else can we do? We're small and powerless to stand up to a bully like India on our own.
What we should do is to replace all this current spineless politicians by a total countrywide revolution but when............
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  #8  
Old January 5, 2007, 11:54 AM
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If BAL comes to power (don't know how, as they quit the election), they can use লগি/বৈঠা আন্দোলন and march to India, as this is way more serious than KM Hasan or anything else!
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  #9  
Old January 5, 2007, 12:04 PM
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There are solutions.
1. Unite people for the sake of country not "me first" (brotherhood).
2. Be honest. Not only this dam but all other dams will vanish without loss of lives.
3. Ettakullah.
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  #10  
Old January 5, 2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcricmad
What we should do is to replace all this current spineless politicians by a total countrywide revolution but when............
Better said than done! How do we make our country face a task even more difficult when we already face so many.
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  #11  
Old January 5, 2007, 12:07 PM
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Of all the environmental concers associated with this dam, this one is not the most important one.

Increased levels of seismic activities are always associated with large dam projects. Take the Hoover dam (Arizona - Nevada, USA). Increased seismic activities were predicted even before the dam was built. In the following ten years after the commissioning of the dam, there were 600 different earthquakes, small and large.

This happens mostly due to the massive amount of water compiling in a small area. Sometimes, underground layers and strata of the rocks crush, at other times there would be unusual movement of the tectonic plates due to the increased weight.

Engineers of the dams of modern day account for these and build the dams strong enough to withstand the tremors. The seismic vibration dampner technologies have evolved into a whole new branch in civil engineering. These virtual shock absorbers protect the foundation footings of all large structures built today.

If we go ahead with protesting against the dam in this line, it will be simply brushed aside by experts. There must be a thousand more environmental risks that are associated with this diabolical project. The unilateral building of this dam by India will violate several UN mandates and precedences also.

The Farakka barrage did many times more damage to India's economy and environment than what it did to ours. After all, we are one of the wettest places on earth. Today, Farakka is just about a salvage project, ruined by early miscalculations of Himalayan silt that just about sealed off its gates. Only a small portion of this barrage remains operable today.

Similarly, this new dam will also cause more damage to Indian economy and environment than to ours. The whole of Bangladesh is a delta, we must remember. Here are a few astonishing facts about our geology:

1. We have the largest river delta in the planet.
2. A whopping 20% of all the silt of the planet goes into the oceans through our country. This is why Bangladesh is a land built of Himalayan silt, a land mass that is growing daily, via more and more islands above the continental shelf.

This billon ton mass of silt has to go somewhere. When you think of an Indian dam, just remember these facts. Water flows downwards, brings silt with the flow. If you dam the flow, you will be "stuck in muck". Simple.

There are 2 strategic barrages we should build, one in Chapai Nawabgong, another above Sylhet. But, only and only India puts dams up the river. Otherwise, the best strategy in river training is to have fast moving flows of water through deeper channels straight into the ocean.

Dams are hot button political issues. China will also build a dam on that same water source up the mountains. Tipaimukh is on the eastern side of India. They will have to employ a ton of security measures to protect these structures. This is an area where India already struggles with internal unrest, let alone another Chinese invasion.

We must try and stop India from building this dam. But we should focus all our strategies with the consideration that India will go for this suicidal nosedive. India's history is full of such references.

Last edited by billah; January 5, 2007 at 12:14 PM..
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  #12  
Old January 5, 2007, 01:10 PM
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billah bhai,

r u sayin the dam will have disastrous implications for india more so than BD?

any earthquake in BD will be terrible with our jam packed populace.
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  #13  
Old January 5, 2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
billah bhai,

r u sayin the dam will have disastrous implications for india more so than BD?

any earthquake in BD will be terrible with our jam packed populace.
Many of Indian scientists and experts believe so.

Earthquakes, by themselves, of high magnitude will definitely be devastating disasters in population centers like Dhaka, Chittagong, Khulna etc. These areas are packed with unsafe structures. During the first ten years of the completion of the Hoover dam projects, the quakes were mostly small. They continue daily to this day, some are not even detectable by human perception.

But, earthquakes causing this dam to burst open is a less likely scenario. If we are to protest this dam, we should point out many other harmful environmental impacts this project will bring about.

We should also identify and side with Indian lobbies against the dam. There were protests by Hindus for damming "Ganga Ma" during the building the Farakka barrage. Many hindus still believe that the government has committed a grave sin and it must redeem itself by eliminating the structure. I expect there will be similar protests this time around also. We should work with all groups against this sceme.
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  #14  
Old January 5, 2007, 06:45 PM
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The key is: activism.

We have to turn ourselves into activists, organize well coordinated protests, contact environmentalists that are saluted around the world, contact activist groups that are actually against such dam, and most of all, take some actions ourselves.

From past experiences, the very first step into this will be to create a website to promote awareness on this and create a documentation of adverse effects of this dam. I know a few of you will laugh at this, but this is just the first step. There have been many protests that took place using web sites, the most popular of these are anti-MIA movement, and the Seattle protest for NAFTA agreement. Using the site, you need to keep updating the document on what are the likely problems that this dam is going to get us into. A collective group of individuals can work on this from different parts of the world, while raising awareness within their community through friends and family. The key here is increasing the magnitude of awareness. If this much is done, the rest will follow.

Here is how it may work:
- Take the first step (as I mentioned above).
- Gather individuals, clubs, organizations (Bangladeshi) from different universities, cities, communities that can raise awareness [of particular interest is Bangladeshi organizations in Canada and the US...these people can make a great impact]
- Organize worldwide protests, to get the attention of international audience. By just doing this even in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia only will have quite a huge impact...plus, you just can't believe how much involvement the media will have once we have their attention.

If all these sound nonsense to anyone...please don't even bother respond to this message. If the regular members agree with me here, I can take the responsibility of making the initial site...from which we can start getting involved. Also, I know that BC has quite a few IT people who can contribute heavily with the technical things about a site...there are definitely social scientists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, business people, accountants, and a lot of other professionals who can contribute heavily by assessing different aspects of the effects of this evil project by the Indian government.

If nobody's interested, this is yet another failure like our failed governments.
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  #15  
Old January 5, 2007, 06:51 PM
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And Billah bhai seems to have quite a bit of knowledge about the construction and technical aspects of a dam, along with knowledge on how this violates international treaties, UN policies, etc. Can someone get more detailed here?
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  #16  
Old January 6, 2007, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
Pool our experts and diplomats, state our case as forcefully as possible and try to have a closely-monitored treaty with India on this.
You can't reason with the unreasonable.
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  #17  
Old January 6, 2007, 12:46 AM
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Well, the idea is...within Bangladesh you can't do ANYTHING about it. Lets just face it. India won't give a crap about BD, and BD in terms of its economy, dominance, and everything else, is just dood-bhaat to India. Thus, I think talking to politicians, diplomats, and what not will have much of an effect. If we have to do something, it has to be at the international level...may be even including Indians who are against such an action. There's a good saying: think globally, act locally. I guess this case sets the perfect example of why thinking has to be done globally.
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  #18  
Old January 6, 2007, 01:58 AM
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Even US has difficult dealing with India without giving some kind of concession, example the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty and nukes testings. What difference do you think Bangladesh can make? We aren't dood-bhaat. We are Mayer doodh compared to India.

Diplomacy is a waste of time.
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  #19  
Old January 6, 2007, 02:23 AM
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Can't agree here Alien. Do you think if US gives a proper nudge, India can still do whatever it wants? I don't think so. It's probably not that difficult for anyone to understand why India gets away with its caricatures without any SO CALLED UN sanctions?

At the same time, I think a lot can be done by creating awareness globally. Specially, the jackpot will be getting the support of those Indians who are against building this dam.
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Old January 6, 2007, 03:23 AM
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Haha, I just read the news that 30 people were killed in NE states by ULFA separatists. Now is the wonderful time for Bangladesh to show non-cooperation.
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  #21  
Old January 6, 2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
You can't reason with the unreasonable.
Cute, but doesn't help.

Bangladesh is surrounded by India and will be for the unforeseeable future. Bangladesh needs to make the most of its situation. She needs to forge relationships with India where both parties can benefit equitably. Same goes for India.

Bangladeshi people who call India unreasonable all the time in an absolutist fashion and Indian people who call Bangladesh the same all the time in an absolutist fashion need to be quietened considerably if anything beneficial is to come from the relationship between the two countries.

Unfortunately, party politics in BD has made India-based polarization as one of the political platforms and this platform tries to paint, in broad strokes, Bangladeshi political parties as pro- or anti-India, mostly just for the heck of it.

In India, similar pro-/anti-Bangladesh polarization exists, but is confined to a certain section of the polity, mainly because India has bigger neighbors like China, Pakistan, etc. to think about.

As long as these polarizations exist in their current state in the respective countries, India and Bangladesh will find it difficult to forge a mutually beneficial relationship.
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  #22  
Old January 6, 2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
Diplomacy is a waste of time.
No, it isn't. I am curious, what other options are you thinking about?
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  #23  
Old January 6, 2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
As long as these polarizations exist in their current state in the respective countries, India and Bangladesh will find it difficult to forge a mutually beneficial relationship.
well in order to have something be mutually beneficial, india will have to gain something by being nice to bangladesh. why should she help bangladesh at her own expense?

say whatever about pakistan and how, on many indices, they are behind bangladesh, but they are a stronger nation, and as such they don't have to bother with this type thing.

in other words, bangladeshi and indian politicians sitting at a table can talk all they want, but we all know that india ja bujhabe, tai theek kotha. players of such disparity do not negotiate...the power dictates the terms, the meek accept one disastrous option or the other.

a weaker state can only effectively negotiate when they excercise some leverage. what leverage does bangladesh have vis a vis india?

iraq had no leverage, but north korea does, which is why north korea with all its poverty can boast of having a few less foreign troops on her soil. oil was a factor, saddam was a factor, but the kicker was that iraq can't do anything to you if you invade. US could have just as easily invaded North korea, but the NK response is what would have deterred that.

bangladesh needs a strategic detterent, its almost necessary for her survival. so either build an economy 10 or 20 times bigger than current one, cut the political infighting, or build a nuke. take your pick.
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  #24  
Old January 6, 2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan


bangladesh needs a strategic detterent, its almost necessary for her survival. so either build an economy 10 or 20 times bigger than current one, cut the political infighting, or build a nuke. take your pick.
A nuke at the disposal of these half learned power hungry politicians is more of a threat to national security than our neighbours !!!! Gadha gula dekha jabe opposition k marte giye will nuke the whole country and in the process kill themselves too. Gadha after all, so what else can I expect !!
However I completey agree with all the points you are making. I was thinking more in terms of doing something that would also cause "harm" to the Indian counterparts so that they are forced to talk and work out the best possible solution for both. Maybe we should build a dam on our part of the border and cause them some misfortune like they are doing now. If they were to attack and destroy that dam then we would be able to get international support because that attack would be considered a threat to the existence of Bangladesh. I am sure the powerful rivals of India in the world will raise their voices and that would put more collective pressure than just bangladesh trying to do something on their own.
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  #25  
Old January 6, 2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
bangladesh needs a strategic detterent, its almost necessary for her survival.
"Survival" from who? What "strategic deterrent"? Who's going to attack Bangladesh, a country with a population of 14 crore, and destabilize the entire subcontinent just for the heck of it?

Quote:
so either build an economy 10 or 20 times bigger than current one,
...and Bangladesh needs India as one of the major trading partners to build an economy of that size. We need to increase bilateral ventures between India and BD so that both economies prosper, not isolate ourselves.

Quote:
cut the political infighting,
This is obviously the first step towards many, many things.

Quote:
or build a nuke.
Crazy.

*****

I think there are crazies on both sides: India and BD. And they usually make each other more crazy by conjuring up absurd scenarios.
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