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  #51  
Old January 8, 2007, 10:04 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Hmmm...I understand. In that case, you shouldn't be arguing with the crazy either...coz it's such a crazy idea, that someone needs to tell the crazy how crazily crazy it is
Trust me, I am not exactly considering this an "argument".
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  #52  
Old January 8, 2007, 06:46 PM
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Do people honeslty think Bangaldesh will survive properly without INDIA?
If India puts an economic embargo on Bangladesh. Within matter of days bangladesh will collapse. They are stronger than us economically and politcally and militarilly. So non cooperation ideas are out of the question.
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  #53  
Old January 8, 2007, 10:18 PM
billah billah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Do people honeslty think Bangaldesh will survive properly without INDIA?
If India puts an economic embargo on Bangladesh. Within matter of days bangladesh will collapse. They are stronger than us economically and politcally and militarilly. So non cooperation ideas are out of the question.
First of all, you have a very narrow view of your country, side-by-side with India. Remember this statement from me, you can check it out later:

The so-called Indian "emerging middle-class with increased buying power" is mostly based on phony balony numbers. This ghost will be a no-show in this decade. India's poverty ans social ills are diabolical, compared to Bangladesh. Indian society has such deep-rooted self-hatred within itself, that, separatist movements are bound to get only worse in future.

As for how we should deal with India:
The way India treats it's weak neighbors can be easily defined as "bullying". A bully is actually a coward. Cowards back off if you face up to them. First thing to do is to punch hard and give the bully a bloody nose. This one language India understands very clearly and backs off.

We absolutely need to create closer military cooperations with the enemies of India. We need to deliver strong messages to make India understand that if they cooperate with us, then our strategic position becomes their strength; but if they treat us the wrong way, then our strategic position becomes India's own weakness, like a bullet through the heart. We are in a strategically strong position to shatter India into many little pieces. The language of threat and force must be mixed with diplomacy to deal with the single biggest threat to our sovereignity, it is indeed India.

We must play the cards such as - helping separatist movements in Indian states and creating strategic formation at the "chicken's neck" to make them understand the kind of logistical nightmares we can create for them. We are not Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal or Maldives. India's other neighbors have always used this type of strategies to keep them in line. You let a bully push you around, your life will be miserable. India has not proven to be a benevolent neighbor for us. Good news is, we do possess the treatment for that desease.
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  #54  
Old January 9, 2007, 12:26 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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The so-called Indian "emerging middle-class with increased buying power" is mostly based on phony balony numbers. This ghost will be a no-show in this decade. India's poverty ans social ills are diabolical, compared to Bangladesh. Indian society has such deep-rooted self-hatred within itself, that, separatist movements are bound to get only worse in future.
partly true...india is a rising economic power, but they are burdened with their caste divisions and 40% of population living under poverty line.

Quote:
As for how we should deal with India:
The way India treats it's weak neighbors can be easily defined as "bullying". A bully is actually a coward. Cowards back off if you face up to them. First thing to do is to punch hard and give the bully a bloody nose. This one language India understands very clearly and backs off.
spot on.

Quote:
We absolutely need to create closer military cooperations with the enemies of India. We need to deliver strong messages to make India understand that if they cooperate with us, then our strategic position becomes their strength; but if they treat us the wrong way, then our strategic position becomes India's own weakness, like a bullet through the heart. We are in a strategically strong position to shatter India into many little pieces. The language of threat and force must be mixed with diplomacy to deal with the single biggest threat to our sovereignity, it is indeed India.
poignantly brilliant. when ur small and otherwise weak and surrounded by enemies you must do as israel does...ally yourselves with powerful enemies of your enemies.

Quote:
We must play the cards such as - helping separatist movements in Indian states and creating strategic formation at the "chicken's neck" to make them understand the kind of logistical nightmares we can create for them. We are not Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal or Maldives. India's other neighbors have always used this type of strategies to keep them in line. You let a bully push you around, your life will be miserable. India has not proven to be a benevolent neighbor for us. Good news is, we do possess the treatment for that desease.
we should not help india's seperatists...we can however NOT HELP INDIA until they change their stance vis a vis bangladesh.
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  #55  
Old January 9, 2007, 04:45 AM
Special 1 Special 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
First of all, you have a very narrow view of your country, side-by-side with India. Remember this statement from me, you can check it out later:

The so-called Indian "emerging middle-class with increased buying power" is mostly based on phony balony numbers. This ghost will be a no-show in this decade. India's poverty ans social ills are diabolical, compared to Bangladesh. Indian society has such deep-rooted self-hatred within itself, that, separatist movements are bound to get only worse in future.

As for how we should deal with India:
The way India treats it's weak neighbors can be easily defined as "bullying". A bully is actually a coward. Cowards back off if you face up to them. First thing to do is to punch hard and give the bully a bloody nose. This one language India understands very clearly and backs off.

We absolutely need to create closer military cooperations with the enemies of India. We need to deliver strong messages to make India understand that if they cooperate with us, then our strategic position becomes their strength; but if they treat us the wrong way, then our strategic position becomes India's own weakness, like a bullet through the heart. We are in a strategically strong position to shatter India into many little pieces. The language of threat and force must be mixed with diplomacy to deal with the single biggest threat to our sovereignity, it is indeed India.

We must play the cards such as - helping separatist movements in Indian states and creating strategic formation at the "chicken's neck" to make them understand the kind of logistical nightmares we can create for them. We are not Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal or Maldives. India's other neighbors have always used this type of strategies to keep them in line. You let a bully push you around, your life will be miserable. India has not proven to be a benevolent neighbor for us. Good news is, we do possess the treatment for that desease.
Are we assuming "ceteres paribus"?
Seriously, do u think India is sooooooo stupid to let all of these things happen?
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  #56  
Old January 9, 2007, 05:13 AM
billah billah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Are we assuming "ceteres paribus"?
Seriously, do u think India is sooooooo stupid to let all of these things happen?
Of course there will be groups of "resigned to fate" people. I don't see how India even gets the scope to LET US or not let us.... India does not have a say-so in it.

We, determine our direction for the future. Our fate is not tied to that of India. Heck we are leaving them behind in many areas. Our momentum and direction are good, decisively different than the lethargic Indian model.

To think that India is in charge or LEETING us do ANYTHING would be misguided thinking. We must remember, how we think about it - matters.
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  #57  
Old January 9, 2007, 05:45 AM
Special 1 Special 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Of course there will be groups of "resigned to fate" people. I don't see how India even gets the scope to LET US or not let us.... India does not have a say-so in it.

We, determine our direction for the future. Our fate is not tied to that of India. Heck we are leaving them behind in many areas. Our momentum and direction are good, decisively different than the lethargic Indian model.

To think that India is in charge or LEETING us do ANYTHING would be misguided thinking. We must remember, how we think about it - matters.
you are highly optimistic, but the good thing is atleast you do not have crazy solutions like some of the members on this board.
Believe me, i would like bangladesh to reach that stage where we can actually dictate negotiations with India
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  #58  
Old January 11, 2007, 03:41 AM
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Alien Alien is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Believe me, i would like bangladesh to reach that stage where we can actually dictate negotiations with India
How do you suppose we achieve that?
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  #59  
Old January 11, 2007, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
You are looking at this from a very, very detached perspective. You don't even know half the history of India-Bangladesh relationship, how it has evolved over the years, who the major players are, etc etc.

What you are talking about is schoolboy stuff. You are making broad, crazy assumptions that doesn't match up to the nuances of the relationship between countries that are neighbors. The reality is much more complex than that. Which is why I am suggesting you read up on the history first.
And what does history lesson teach us? Give into India all the time?

You are saying diplomacy, an approach that never worked for us. I admit BD - India history isn't my area, hence my "crazy, school boy" assumptions. But your suggestions aren't making much sense either.
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  #60  
Old January 11, 2007, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
How do you suppose we achieve that?
A better word would have been wish.
Well at this point i dont have any practical solution.
If i were to be a pessimist I would say never, because of there sheer size they will always dictate terms.
However, till we do reach that stage, i believe diplomacy is the way to go. Acting hostile towards India will not help Bangladesh. We can talk about trade restrcitions and all that bs. i believe that you come from a well off family, but a lot of poor people will have to suffer if we act in a hostile way towards India. hence we should be careful
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  #61  
Old January 11, 2007, 04:01 AM
Special 1 Special 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Of course there will be groups of "resigned to fate" people. I don't see how India even gets the scope to LET US or not let us.... India does not have a say-so in it.

We, determine our direction for the future. Our fate is not tied to that of India. Heck we are leaving them behind in many areas. Our momentum and direction are good, decisively different than the lethargic Indian model.

To think that India is in charge or LEETING us do ANYTHING would be misguided thinking. We must remember, how we think about it - matters.
So to answer my question you are saying that India does not have any power to dictate what we do.
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  #62  
Old January 11, 2007, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
A better word would have been wish.
Well at this point i dont have any practical solution.
If i were to be a pessimist I would say never, because of there sheer size they will always dictate terms.
However, till we do reach that stage, i believe diplomacy is the way to go. Acting hostile towards India will not help Bangladesh. We can talk about trade restrcitions and all that bs. i believe that you come from a well off family, but a lot of poor people will have to suffer if we act in a hostile way towards India. hence we should be careful
So you are saying we just sit and wish that one day we will be in the position of dictating negotiation with India? Well, its something we all have been doing.

Diplomacy is probably the best medicine to all problems but there are diseases that need more powerful doses such as having restricted relations with them.

I didn't say let's cut off completely. What I meant was have the tit for tat attitude until they start to show us some respect we deserve.
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  #63  
Old January 11, 2007, 11:50 AM
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I must apologize for not reading all the posts here, but I love the tone of people waking up to realize the importance of "Activism". Thanks Billah for the info. Internet has become such a great tool for activicm. I think we need to transform forums into a format like Yohoo's new email beta version or the outlook versions, because they make it easier for people to get involved. These forums also need to be as user freindly as possible for blackberries/iphones etc. Anyway, I think BNP is in a position to make this a major agenda. They can do an andolon on this immediately and take the public's focus away from the election, and really show how much they care about the important issues of Bangladesh. This manipulation would not only help them in public's eyes, it'll bring limelight on this all transcending issue. This is bigger than the independence war.
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  #64  
Old January 11, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Pagol-chagol: It's funny. When I mentioned about it all, and said that it's going to be a huge failure on our part (just like the BD government) if we don't start an activist's role, nobody responded to it. Then I figured, we, the Bangladeshis, aren't worthy of a good life. If after reading my post, nobody seemed interested in doing ANYTHING at our own individual level for the country, I'm sorry to say, we're all losers.
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  #65  
Old January 11, 2007, 01:12 PM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Pagol-chagol: It's funny. When I mentioned about it all, and said that it's going to be a huge failure on our part (just like the BD government) if we don't start an activist's role, nobody responded to it. Then I figured, we, the Bangladeshis, aren't worthy of a good life. If after reading my post, nobody seemed interested in doing ANYTHING at our own individual level for the country, I'm sorry to say, we're all losers.
People need other people to make the structures for them to follow. If nobody does it, then they need gimmick to break out of inertia. Remember, Bangladeshis were enslaved for thousands of years by jomidaars, rajaas, british and so many others. Pakis taking most of their money moved them little, but the political exploiters/"leaders" knew that they can use the "language" to make people horny. When Lord Clive won, not many people fought, but so many people came to see the "tamasha" when they entered the city that he got really scared. He thought, if each one throws a stone, all his people will be dead.
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  #66  
Old January 11, 2007, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nasif
সূত্র: দৈনিক যায়যায়দিন
This explains everything...
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  #67  
Old January 11, 2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by User Name
This explains everything...
Really?

I guess then we should invite India to build few more of these.
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  #68  
Old January 11, 2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by User Name
This explains everything...
Please don't be so mean on a particular newspaper. Jaijaidin was the first to break the news. It was published later in all other national dailies including Prothom Alo and Daily Star
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  #69  
Old January 11, 2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagol-chagol
People need other people to make the structures for them to follow. If nobody does it, then they need gimmick to break out of inertia. Remember, Bangladeshis were enslaved for thousands of years by jomidaars, rajaas, british and so many others. Pakis taking most of their money moved them little, but the political exploiters/"leaders" knew that they can use the "language" to make people horny. When Lord Clive won, not many people fought, but so many people came to see the "tamasha" when they entered the city that he got really scared. He thought, if each one throws a stone, all his people will be dead.
Sadly enough, we, being some of the most privileged Bangladeshis, are not able to do anything. All we need is 5 to 10 people to start with. You yourself mentioned the potential of activism on the internet...I guess I don't need to explain how we can start. There's very little anybody can do singlehandedly.
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  #70  
Old January 12, 2007, 11:50 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Sadly enough, we, being some of the most privileged Bangladeshis, are not able to do anything. All we need is 5 to 10 people to start with. You yourself mentioned the potential of activism on the internet...I guess I don't need to explain how we can start. There's very little anybody can do singlehandedly.
Not true. Pick one or two issues you really care about and work on that only. If everyone did that this world would have been heaven. Just do your part and you'll be a free man, at least. Thats not "very little". Internet has opened up so many doors.
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