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  #1  
Old January 16, 2020, 04:33 PM
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Default Test team for PAK and ZIM series

At least 3 Tests to be played (there was some talk of adding a 4th), but given the schedule, might as well be considered as a single series/tournament. The Rawalpindi Test is just 3 weeks away now. No Shakib or Mushfiq for the PAK series.

The 8 guys who most likely have their places locked:

Mominul (*), Tamim, Riyad, Liton (+), Taijul, Miraz, Jayed, and Ebadat.

That leaves 7 slots open, with the following guys having a high chance of being picked:

Nayeem, Shadman, Mithun, and Mosaddek.

That leaves 3 slots open. I would guess both Saifs have a chance, with perhaps Nurul also perhaps getting a chance as WK cover.

Personally this would be my XI for Rawalpindi:

Tamim
Shadman
Saif
Mominul (*)
Mosaddek
Miraz
Nurul (+)
Nayeem
Taijul
Jayed
Ebadat

Obviously for the ZIM Test, Mushy would replace either of Saif or Nurul (whoever fails with the bat). When Shakib comes back, he would most likely replace Miraz or Nayeem. Miraz could also be substituded for Saifuddin if we need a 3rd seamer.
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  #2  
Old January 16, 2020, 05:12 PM
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Let's look at away stats for last five years - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

With average 15.22, it would be a joke to select Momin for Rawalpindi, let alone keeping him as the captain.

On the otherhand, with 41.71, Soumya should be a must for the Pak Test.

I am still hoping Mushfiq will not abandon his team, now that we don't have Shakib.

I would expect Misbah to order a grassy pitch against us. So, no point taking any specialist spinner besides Miraz.

My XI:

Tamim
Shadman
Soumya
Mushfiq
Mosaddek
Riyad (Captain, in absence of a better option)
Miraz
Nurul (WK)
Rahi
Ebadat
AA (our best bowler in the last Test)

Concussion replacements: Saif, Liton
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  #3  
Old January 16, 2020, 05:43 PM
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For Zimbabwe Test, I would not make a spinner friendly wicket - we need to learn to win without so reliant on home advantage. However, I would still bring in Taijul, for obvious reason, in expense of a pacer.

Based on form, I may want to see Shadman and Saif swap places.

Other than that, I would pretty much go with the same team I listed for the Rawalpindi Test.
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  #4  
Old January 17, 2020, 08:33 AM
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TIK-Sadman-Mominul-Mushfiqur-Soummya-Mosaddek-Miraz-Nurul-Alamin-Ebadat-Shoriful (if wins U19 cup by this time)

Reserve/Concussion alternates: Rahi, RIad, Liton/Towhid (if wins U19 cup by this time) , Saif
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  #5  
Old January 17, 2020, 09:07 AM
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^^You want an U/19 player to be fast tracked into the Test team, on an away tour, with experience of playing only one FC match?!!!
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  #6  
Old January 17, 2020, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^You want an U/19 player to be fast tracked into the Test team, on an away tour, with experience of playing only one FC match?!!!
Why not? PAK do that all the time. More importantly our players mostly useless specially pacers. Remember all our pacers did well at debut and then fades off.
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  #7  
Old January 17, 2020, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^You want an U/19 player to be fast tracked into the Test team, on an away tour, with experience of playing only one FC match?!!!
All of 3 our world class players did just that (Mushy, Tamim, and Shakib).
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  #8  
Old January 17, 2020, 11:09 AM
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^Cannot skip ASH at least in that list right?
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  #9  
Old January 17, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
All of 3 our world class players did just that (Mushy, Tamim, and Shakib).
Both Shakib and Mushfiq played at least one full A-team tour and a handful of FC matches, before their Test debuts.

Tamim had been playing in NCL three years leading to his Test debut, and had few FC centuries under his belt already. He was introduced to international cricket through a series against Zim. He played a good number of ODIs before his Test debut as well.

So, no, not even a decade ago we acted so foolish.
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  #10  
Old January 17, 2020, 02:23 PM
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Choosing fresh new bowlers in Test is not a surprise practice. All sub-continental teams has been doing it. PAK in pace department & Srilanka in spin departments. India rarely envisioned such experiment and it did not really help their away campaigns much.

For us, we can have a "same old" same old or try something. Instead of watching Rubels ugly bend or rickety Shofiul hollering over, this can be a hit or miss but if it does not work out we understand, it is not that we have a super swinging Wasim Akram already in the squad.
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  #11  
Old January 17, 2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Both Shakib and Mushfiq played at least one full A-team tour and a handful of FC matches, before their Test debuts.

Tamim had been playing in NCL three years leading to his Test debut, and had few FC centuries under his belt already. He was introduced to international cricket through a series against Zim. He played a good number of ODIs before his Test debut as well.

So, no, not even a decade ago we acted so foolish.
Shoriful has played a number of first class matches already. He has played some A team cricket. We dont have the luxury to leave him out.
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  #12  
Old January 17, 2020, 06:18 PM
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^^Shoriful, you may have some justification for. Don't think he played for A-team yet, but did play for Academy team last year.

I was actually referring to Hridoy, who has played only one FC match so far. It's simply ridiculous to see his name proposed for the Test team already, that too on an away tour.

Anyway, it's a free forum, everyone has the right to sound as ridiculous they want.
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  #13  
Old January 17, 2020, 06:57 PM
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There is no justification for including any u19 player other then Shoriful. 22 wickets in 11 wickets is pretty impressive. However, I think we still need to give some time to Ebadat-Rahi-Al Amin combo. its unfair to drop any of them at this point. My test team for Pak series would be,

Tamim (bhai jodi khelte chay)
Shadman
Mominul
Kayes
Mosaddek
Riyad (c)
Liton
Miraz
Rahi
Al Amin
Ebadat

Extras: Saif Hasan, Nayeem, Fizz, Shoriful
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  #14  
Old January 17, 2020, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^Shoriful, you may have some justification for. Don't think he played for A-team yet, but did play for Academy team last year.

I was actually referring to Hridoy, who has played only one FC match so far. It's simply ridiculous to see his name proposed for the Test team already, that too on an away tour.

Anyway, it's a free forum, everyone has the right to sound as ridiculous they want.
If Hridhoy has the talent, then absolutely hand him a Test cap. Look at Pakistan, they took Naseem out of a world cup because they feel he has the goods for senior team. If a player is ready, no point wasting years of development in our domestic leagues only or one A team series vs Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka every other year.

Lets not pretend that our A team plays 3-4 series per year and/or offers experience touring England, Australia, SA. Only India gets that, which is why PAK develops their players at national team level. Babar Azam was a crap Test player averaging under 30 for like 2 years before 2019. Naseem Shah got spanked in Australia.

We cannot follow the Indian or the Engliah system and the reasons why should be obvious.
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Old January 18, 2020, 07:24 AM
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Towhid can definitely tour with the team and gain valuable experience. I did not see him play so cannot directly comment but ccricinfo’s snippet seems valuable. Also if a 16 year old can make record earning century as a youngest player at an away match why not a 19 year old while they belong to same country.
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  #16  
Old January 19, 2020, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
If Hridhoy has the talent, then absolutely hand him a Test cap. Look at Pakistan, they took Naseem out of a world cup because they feel he has the goods for senior team. If a player is ready, no point wasting years of development in our domestic leagues only or one A team series vs Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka every other year.

Lets not pretend that our A team plays 3-4 series per year and/or offers experience touring England, Australia, SA. Only India gets that, which is why PAK develops their players at national team level. Babar Azam was a crap Test player averaging under 30 for like 2 years before 2019. Naseem Shah got spanked in Australia.

We cannot follow the Indian or the Engliah system and the reasons why should be obvious.
I 100% agree but the only issue is if he has a string of poor performances the selectors will just drop him and that may hurt his confidence and then he may fade into obscurity.
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  #17  
Old January 19, 2020, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Lets not pretend that our A team plays 3-4 series per year and/or offers experience touring England, Australia, SA.
Now you're trying to use your ignorance to justify your foolishness. Each year, at least in recent years, BCB have been organizing HP summer camps and have been sending teams abroad. Last year we had multiple developmental tours to India, Sri Lanka, besides A-team matches against Afghans and Emerging Cup in Bangladesh. Year before that, Academy team did go to England and another tour as well.

The camp itself makes a huge difference for some players. For example, Miraz did not come out being a world class spinner straight out of U/19 WC. He spent a summer under Coach Sohel on his bowling; before and after that he played NCL focusing on his bowling; and then he came out and wrecked England.

The foolish way you're proposing was how BCB acted in early 2000s. Yes, some player then came straight out of U/19 and had some fluke success. But since they had not worked on their weakness or BCB didn't help, it would not take long for opposition to figure those weaknesses out. As much we complain against BCB, even they learnt from their mistakes and have been trying to do something to rectify it.
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Old January 19, 2020, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Look at Pakistan, they took Naseem out of a world cup because they feel he has the goods for senior team.
Another comment out of ignorance - they took Naseem out because there are whole lot discussion around him as an age cheater. They avoided the embarrassment by taking him out of U/19 WC.

Quote:
which is why PAK develops their players at national team level.
No, they don't. Naseem, for example, had been spotted by Andy Roberts three years ago (which is why it sounds ridiculous that he still claims to be 16), they had been working with him since then, let him play in domestics, before bringing him out to international stage.
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Old January 19, 2020, 08:10 PM
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We can talk about experience and all as much we want and then can get humbled by AFG no-FC experience at our own backyard. Trying the same thing (players with no visible improvement) one way or the other and expecting different result is just sign of insanity.
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Old January 19, 2020, 08:40 PM
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^^ There are many different things we can try - 1) not be so dependent on spinners 2) prepare better pitches in domestics to condition batsmen play pace better 3) have more A-team/Academy tours outside subcontinent, etc

Bringing U/19 players with almost no FC experience to the Test team is actually a tried and failed approach from early 2000s. Now you tell me who is showing signs of insanity.
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  #21  
Old January 19, 2020, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Now you're trying to use your ignorance to justify your foolishness. Each year, at least in recent years, BCB have been organizing HP summer camps and have been sending teams abroad. Last year we had multiple developmental tours to India, Sri Lanka, besides A-team matches against Afghans and Emerging Cup in Bangladesh. Year before that, Academy team did go to England and another tour as well.
HP and Academy is not the same thing as A team. BCB has been using them interchangeably for the past 5+ years, and that maybe an additional reason of why so many of our players from this period have been stagnating (Mithun, Liton, Soumya, Sabbir, etc).

The A team should be the 2nd string national side almost entirely comprised of uncapped domestic stalwarts (eg NCL, BCL, DPL, BPL runs/wickets leaders), national teamers out of form (Mominul), national teamers just coming back from injury and needing match practice at a high level, and lastly Test specialists who need more competitive game time to stay fit/sharp (Mominul, Taijul, Ebadat).

An HP or Academy side should contain prospects from U-19 levels. Its functionality should be separate from that of an A team. I am reasonably sure that the top sides in world cricket (India, England, Australia, NZ) stick to such differentiation.

If you look, India-SA-NZ-ENG-AUS have regularly A team and emerging player competitions on an annual basis. Its little wonder that those 4-5 countries always make Test ready players, whereas teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and West Indies do not.

Quote:
The camp itself makes a huge difference for some players. For example, Miraz did not come out being a world class spinner straight out of U/19 WC. He spent a summer under Coach Sohel on his bowling; before and after that he played NCL focusing on his bowling; and then he came out and wrecked England.
You defintely know more about the development of players more than me. I won't argue with you there, as there's nothing to argue about.

Quote:
The foolish way you're proposing was how BCB acted in early 2000s. Yes, some player then came straight out of U/19 and had some fluke success. But since they had not worked on their weakness or BCB didn't help, it would not take long for opposition to figure those weaknesses out. As much we complain against BCB, even they learnt from their mistakes and have been trying to do something to rectify it.
There is no alternative to my "foolishness" because the BCB has stopped or been unable to organize A team tours. An A team tour to Zimbabwe or West Indies or Sri Lanka once a year is simply not sufficient to produce world class players.

I am suggesting, that since the BCB won't be able to get our A team a tour against England Lions or Australia A, development needs to happen at the national team level and with young players. A player like Shadman should debut at 18, 19, or 20 years of age, not 24-25.
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  #22  
Old January 19, 2020, 09:44 PM
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Ok boomer...
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  #23  
Old January 20, 2020, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
HP and Academy is not the same thing as A team. BCB has been using them interchangeably for the past 5+ years, and that maybe an additional reason of why so many of our players from this period have been stagnating (Mithun, Liton, Soumya, Sabbir, etc).

The A team should be the 2nd string national side almost entirely comprised of uncapped domestic stalwarts (eg NCL, BCL, DPL, BPL runs/wickets leaders), national teamers out of form (Mominul), national teamers just coming back from injury and needing match practice at a high level, and lastly Test specialists who need more competitive game time to stay fit/sharp (Mominul, Taijul, Ebadat).

An HP or Academy side should contain prospects from U-19 levels. Its functionality should be separate from that of an A team. I am reasonably sure that the top sides in world cricket (India, England, Australia, NZ) stick to such differentiation.

If you look, India-SA-NZ-ENG-AUS have regularly A team and emerging player competitions on an annual basis. Its little wonder that those 4-5 countries always make Test ready players, whereas teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and West Indies do not.



You defintely know more about the development of players more than me. I won't argue with you there, as there's nothing to argue about.



There is no alternative to my "foolishness" because the BCB has stopped or been unable to organize A team tours. An A team tour to Zimbabwe or West Indies or Sri Lanka once a year is simply not sufficient to produce world class players.

I am suggesting, that since the BCB won't be able to get our A team a tour against England Lions or Australia A, development needs to happen at the national team level and with young players. A player like Shadman should debut at 18, 19, or 20 years of age, not 24-25.
That’s just it, without regular A team cricket, proper A team cricket, these players will not develop. The domestic system just isn’t producing the quality and quantity of player needed to improve this national team and become a very strong international side that will consistently win and compete against the very best day in and day out.

With that being the case if their isn’t any inbetween (A team) then the choice is to leave players to try and develop domestically (but as said that’s not happening well enough) or have them with the national team.

Neither is ideal and neither will produce the best players. In the meantime all that can be done is pick the best prospects, put them with the national team and hope they swim instead of sink, but doing it this way will most likely mean more failures than successes.

I will say this again though, if I haven’t already said it enough, there are a lot of teams struggling these days (and last 15 years) to replace their top players. Look at South Africa, still a competitive team but not the powerhouse they were, Sri lanka, Australia obviously but that was to be expected to a degree. WI has struggled since the 90s really, I mean aside from a handful of greats the team has struggled since Ambrose and Walsh retired but even before they did they were on a decline.
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  #24  
Old January 24, 2020, 10:32 PM
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Strange wicket, skipper has good foresight.

Searching excuse for upcoming poor performance in Test matches.
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Old January 25, 2020, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinathq
There is no justification for including any u19 player other then Shoriful. 22 wickets in 11 wickets is pretty impressive. However, I think we still need to give some time to Ebadat-Rahi-Al Amin combo. its unfair to drop any of them at this point. My test team for Pak series would be,

Tamim (bhai jodi khelte chay)
Shadman
Mominul
Kayes
Mosaddek
Riyad (c)
Liton
Miraz
Rahi
Al Amin
Ebadat

Extras: Saif Hasan, Nayeem, Fizz, Shoriful
Imrul Kayes is a big no no for Tests. his recent records in Tests is very very poor. time to look for new options.

I do agree that he should be part of the LOI setup for now. Also, Nayeem Hasan the young spinner should be given a long extended run. Miraz is quite overrated.

Regarding Mosaddek, Let him play Tests and Tests only for now, not a bad idea to have certain players ONLY focus on certain formats...
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