Siddons eyes upward curve

[amar11432]

Originally Posted by BagherBacha
Because of Siddons we don’t have under 20 team in every 1 year time . What we saw in the past, after every series we wanted to chop some necks, and that’s why we always have new looked team. If we keep chopping like we used to do we will never have an experienced side. I am sure when Siddons said same team he meant to say not to do any wholesale change. That put tremendous pressure to a player to perform. fficeffice" />

Did we have shafiul 2 yrs ago? Was Rubel playing regularly before?
How many changes do u want in every 6 months/1 yr/2 yr? We always complain we will have another 21 team in 4 years time? Siddons is trying not to have this trend, and we all are complaining.

You dont need to chop everyone but only the players that made the same mistake over and over and except different results.

[Sakib]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb6Kmh0TH6M

[SS]

my hopes have been burried as of today for our 2011 WC campaign..I think we should do our best next Saturday..and starting to think about 2015!! that's a long time to wait.....Siddons expectations matched his coaching style and view point..we saw some glimpses of hopes on some players and successes...also saw some limitations in batting department for ODI...may be we also need something different approach to keep this hope alive and keep progressing. 2015 will be tougher but we have to prepare ourselves from now..good luck tigers

[amar11432]

Originally Posted by SS
my hopes have been burried as of today for our 2011 WC campaign..I think we should do our best next Saturday..and starting to think about 2015!! that's a long time to wait.....Siddons expectations matched his coaching style and view point..we saw some glimpses of hopes on some players and successes...also saw some limitations in batting department for ODI...may be we also need something different approach to keep this hope alive and keep progressing. 2015 will be tougher but we have to prepare ourselves from now..good luck tigers

In my opinion our WC campaign would be a failure without QFs. We reached the 2nd round and beat top 2 teams in 2007. If we go out without reaching the quarterfinals, it would mean we hardly made any improvements relative to other teams.

[BanCricFan]

Everything Siddons has said is a cricketing truth.

"(They're a) very young group, not inexperienced, but young in terms of development - but they're going really well." All we have to do is look up how many FC matches these lads have played. That will lend some light to his statement. And that too if we believe whether proper FC cricket actually exist in BD. And the players attitiude towards their chosen profession. Good knowledge, understanding of the game, temperament, fitness, skills, descipline and technique all part and parcel of the development process. All these are absolutely essential to be successful at the highest level where competition is fierce and the bar really high. We are not quite there yet but getting there and will need hard works and time. A clear longterm goal can only be achieved through continuity of the correct processes. No shortcuts.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by amar11432
In my opinion our WC campaign would be a failure without QFs. We reached the 2nd round and beat top 2 teams in 2007. If we go out without reaching the quarterfinals, it would mean we hardly made any improvements relative to other teams.

I agree.

If we lose to SA, then we will have a 3-3 record which is not bad but given the fact that the 2 losses involved conceded 370 and being bowled out at 58 only exemplifies our inconsitancy. Of the wins, the IRE win was an escape and the ENG win took a miracle.

However, if we win vs. SA, then expectations will have been met and a good showing (win or lose) in the Quarterfinal will make this a successful campaign.

[amar11432]

"If the West Indies win, we will party tonight and focus on the next day. I don't really care how we go through. Everyone is relying on other results in some way or the other, so why not us?"

-Siddons

[amar11432]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Everything Siddons has said is a cricketing truth.

"(They're a) very young group, not inexperienced, but young in terms of development - but they're going really well." All we have to do is look up how many FC matches these lads have played. That will lend some light to his statement. And that too if we believe whether proper FC cricket actually exist in BD. And the players attitiude towards their chosen profession. Good knowledge, understanding of the game, temperament, fitness, skills, descipline and technique all part and parcel of the development process. All these are absolutely essential to be successful at the highest level where competition is fierce and the bar really high. We are not quite there yet but getting there and will need hard works and time. A clear longterm goal can only be achieved through continuity of the correct processes. No shortcuts.

What are you gonna do when the next coach (or this 1) uses the same rhetoric in 2015. That we are a young team....

[Eshen]

I don't think anyone else is offering him a job at this point, so I guess he will say whatever crap that comes to his mind to save his current job.

[BanCricFan]

Originally Posted by amar11432
What are you gonna do when the next coach (or this 1) uses the same rhetoric in 2015. That we are a young team....

Well, if we retain most of this bunch and revamp our FC cricket for better and comparable to say Ranji or County standard then the same "rhetoric" won't wash. The World Cups should not be seen as be all and end all. I say the Tests will indicate where we are at. We have not won a single Test yet against the G8 except a depleted WI. But we are becoming more and more competitive. And probably should have won one or two but the umpires for empire.

[amar11432]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Well, if we retain most of this bunch and revamp our FC cricket for better and comparable to say Ranji or County standard then the same "rhetoric" won't wash. The World Cups should not be seen as be all and end all. I say the Tests will indicate where we are at. We have not won a single Test yet against the G8 except a depleted WI. But we are becoming more and more competitive. And probably should have won one or two but the umpires for empire.

And do you think the G8 teams will stay stagnant while we improve? The fact of the matter is that of course BD has been improving but compared with top tier teams, haven't progressed not enough!

[mar umpire]

Originally Posted by BagherBacha
Because of Siddons we don’t have under 20 team in every 1 year time . What we saw in the past, after every series we wanted to chop some necks, and that’s why we always have new looked team. If we keep chopping like we used to do we will never have an experienced side. I am sure when Siddons said same team he meant to say not to do any wholesale change. That put tremendous pressure to a player to perform. fficeffice" />

Did we have shafiul 2 yrs ago? Was Rubel playing regularly before?
How many changes do u want in every 6 months/1 yr/2 yr? We always complain we will have another 21 team in 4 years time? Siddons is trying not to have this trend, and we all are complaining.

well said
Also agree with bancricfan here. Siddons is quite straight forward in what he says, when he praises or talks up his team we criticise him, when he says we're not up to it we criticise him. We don't have enough quality players to be so liberal about chopping and changing, australia can, SA can, India can. We can't. In other teams they have that senior player that can give them advice and point out flaws and assist in the development of younger players. Perhaps in a few years time shakib, tamim imrul shafiul etc can assist in the development of players independent of the coach. Tendulkar, Dravid were key figures in India, Ponting and co in australia Sri lanka had de silva and ranatunga and so on so forth. We are just developing players who have enough experience and talent to pass it on-we don't really have senior players, the next generation of cricketers may look up to shakib etc what we don't need are these ex players who were amateurs advising how BD should play . Compared to other teams, whose players have played first class cricket for years(and good quality first class cricket) our guys haven't really.

Before the WC we aimed to beat 1 g8 team and netherlandsa and ireland, based on the assumption this would have been enough for us. We have done that and achieved that goal. Unfortunately our NRR is poor. Siddons said before the WC it would take something special to get to the QFs. I think we'll need something special against SA.

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by Baundule
"The majority of these guys, I'd think, will get through and stay in the team until then."

I like this line, stick with same team for the next four years.

Baundele bhai I realize that you are not a big fan of JS but jumping on him for every single word that he utters is becoming really annoying. He said majority of the team. Would you say that 8/9 of the players out of our 15 is a majority? Where did he say stick with the same team for next 4 years. He just said he believes majority of these guys are here to stay. In your opinion do you think 8/9 of the players from our world cup 15 will make it for the next 4 years?

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[One World]

bd_sy bro, looks like Sid is playing a hard ball here. Considering our history of being inonsistent and losing the top notch too many next big things, it is really hard to predict how this form situation of our top performers will deplete and when they can come back and shine.

[Zeeshan]

Siddons surely isn't losing any sleep...or for that matter hair over 2012 it seems.

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by bangladesh_sy
Baundele bhai I realize that you are not a big fan of JS but jumping on him for every single word that he utters is becoming really annoying. He said majority of the team. Would you say that 8/9 of the players out of our 15 is a majority? Where did he say stick with the same team for next 4 years. He just said he believes majority of these guys are here to stay. In your opinion do you think 8/9 of the players from our world cup 15 will make it for the next 4 years?

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sy bhai, I praise where it is due. I supported JS's view in another occassion 2/3 days ago. 'I jump on him' because he gives those chances.

As I read it, by majority he is not thinking in mathematical numbers, he is just suggesting to the 'stick to the same squad' mantra. These players are young and they will play better cricket in 2015, even if they are not doing well in 2011. Actually, if you go by numbers, I do not see why anyone except Shakib, Tamim, Imrul, Shafi and Rubel will be in the team in 2015. I think, we have already seen the best the others can do. If we do really make any progress by the next four years, we will see better players coming into the squad in place of the others. [I am leaving Raj, because he will be past his best days as well, although he is a performer in the current set up]. Nothing against Siddons, everything against his loser view.

[Ajfar]

^ fair enough bhai. You are right if we do go by numbers than the names you mentioned are all we will get. However I would add Mushy to that list for test only though, given that he's been one of best batsman in test over the past 2 year or so. I don't know about 4-5 years down the line but I think Big Z will still be around for at least a while. Even with all his faults he still managed to score some runs and get quite a few starts. I remember Imrul used to get starts like 15-20ish but couldn't convert them but that's starting to change I really hope same will happen with Big Z, but if he continues to fail to convert those starts he is getting or he can't figure out how to run to save his life, he will have to go soon enough.

bhai amare bhai daiken na I'm really not that old

[mar umpire]

hope junaid stays around as well, not only for the batting but the fact he's our first slip fielder which is really a specialist position. He's a decent one too and it's a position that takes time to develop.

Imrul, tamim, shakib, junaid, mushfiq, rubel, shafiul I see inshallah in the starting 11 in 4 yrs time(all hypothetical, based on what we're seeing now) and 5 othr squad members will rotate around filling the gaps.

Wrist spin really hasn't been developing in BD which is a disappointment

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Everything Siddons has said is a cricketing truth.

"(They're a) very young group, not inexperienced, but young in terms of development - but they're going really well." All we have to do is look up how many FC matches these lads have played. That will lend some light to his statement. And that too if we believe whether proper FC cricket actually exist in BD. And the players attitiude towards their chosen profession. Good knowledge, understanding of the game, temperament, fitness, skills, descipline and technique all part and parcel of the development process. All these are absolutely essential to be successful at the highest level where competition is fierce and the bar really high. We are not quite there yet but getting there and will need hard works and time. A clear longterm goal can only be achieved through continuity of the correct processes. No shortcuts.

1. What's that clear goal that he set?
2. How long is 'Long Term' ?


Didn't we hear all these 4 years back? Did we perform as an improved team than 4 years back?
Whatever, Is that improvement enough for 4 years?

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Raynman
If we beat SA, can we conclude that this guy does not have the vision a head coach should have to properly assess what level his team is at or do we say it was a master ploy by him to secure the win by relieving the team of pressure.

That you can understand by his statement bellow in his lates interview.

Jamie: "I've been saying for a long time now that it is not about Ash, Shakib or Tamim but about overall contributions. People who suggest that we win games because of Shakib and Tamim are now being proven very wrong.

He is a big lier and manipulator of every situation to his favour. It was not many days before, he said. "we cnnot win if Tamim doesnt bat well". Now he is blaming others and changing his position. Bolechilam na ... etc etc

[Raynman]

"I think we're two or three years early for this year's World Cup. Maybe the next World Cup these guys will be at their peak, which will be exciting," Siddons said.
"The majority of these guys, I'd think, will get through and stay in the team until then."

Thanks for discovering Shakib, Tamim, Mushy, Nafess, Razzak and Mash and bringing them to our national team.

"If we go well and get through to the quarter-finals and maybe then play well in that, (then that is a) fantastic effort for this group."
"(They're a) very young group, not inexperienced, but young in terms of development - but they're going really well. (And) I think they're going really well and who knows? We may even make the quarter-finals."
If and Maybe are the appropriate expectations for a team coming into the WC ranked number 8.


"I've been saying for a long time now that it is not about Ash, Shakib or Tamim but about overall contributions. People who suggest that we win games because of Shakib and Tamim are now being proven very wrong.
That’s right. I challenge anyone to find contradicting comments where Siddons every blamed losses on a single individual.

"Imrul Kayes, (Junaed Siddiqui) Imrose are doing well. Shahriar Nafees comes in and makes runs and Shafiul and Rubel are bowling beautifully. I think (Sohrawardi) Shuvo didn't win the accolades but he probably won the match for us last time with his ten overs.
Siddons has always shown faith in his regulars like Nafees and Shuvo

"I think we are two or three years early for this World Cup. Maybe in the next World Cup, these guys will be at their peak, which will be exciting.
ICC was unfair to hold the WC in 2011. Had it been in 2013/14, Siddons could’ve shut up his critics. Its not like BD has a history of making the 2nd round in the WC prior to him.

"I have stuck with them for three years but in the past, new coach meant a new team. Even if I am not around for the next World Cup, the new coach needs to understand that this group will be fantastic in three-four years time,"
Again thanks to Siddons for building the core of this team after his arrival

"He (Tamim) got three scores and he got two ducks, these sorts of things happen. He's an opening batter, a lot of the opening batsmen are getting out early. If he does well in the next game, I would say he had a pretty good first round," said Siddons, clearly urging his gun batsman to go for it against Graeme Smith's men.
Can’t fault a coach for standing by his men. Batsmen or bowler, he is always there to support them even through bad performances. I can’t think of one time where he was unfair to the bowlers and accused them for not pulling their weight but instead acknowledged that these things happen.

[samircreep]

Im so sick and tired of people evaluating BD by numbers only. Point is, as Bangladesh cricket stands now, we have been regularly international cricket since 1998. Prior to that,w e had a n odd Sharjah and Aisa cup here and there. We have really shoddy domestic cricket which still hasn't shown enough signs that it's on its way up. As such, we are not analogous to any of the cricketing teams ranked above us.

Given this reality, a Bangladeshi coach or players, unlike say the coach for England, cannot be judged on numbers alone. Context plays a big role in evaluations.

Here's a quick example:

Wins against both England and Ireland were big in my opinion. Both matches, by all accounts, were lost. In both matches, we never gave up. I have seen countless times were BD was in much, much better position than these two matches only to capitulate.

In both these matches, we fought tooth, nail and claw. Never for one second did we think we were going to lose. All this is directly because of the strength of belief that Siddons and his staff has imposed on this young team. Those 20 odd runds that Riad scored in those conditions, in the context of that match, are worth a century in my book.

How do you quantify team spirit and resolve? What's the statistic that best represents our newly-forged attitude?

[amar11432]

^^^ numbers don't lie. Statistic is like a miniskirt, they reveal more than what they hide.

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[Raynman]

Originally Posted by samircreep
Im so sick and tired of people evaluating BD by numbers only. Point is, as Bangladesh cricket stands now, we have been regularly international cricket since 1998. Prior to that,w e had a n odd Sharjah and Aisa cup here and there. We have really shoddy domestic cricket which still hasn't shown enough signs that it's on its way up. As such, we are not analogous to any of the cricketing teams ranked above us.

Given this reality, a Bangladeshi coach or players, unlike say the coach for England, cannot be judged on numbers alone. Context plays a big role in evaluations.

Here's a quick example:

Wins against both England and Ireland were big in my opinion. Both matches, by all accounts, were lost. In both matches, we never gave up. I have seen countless times were BD was in much, much better position than these two matches only to capitulate.

In both these matches, we fought tooth, nail and claw. Never for one second did we think we were going to lose. All this is directly because of the strength of belief that Siddons and his staff has imposed on this young team. Those 20 odd runds that Riad scored in those conditions, in the context of that match, are worth a century in my book.

How do you quantify team spirit and resolve? What's the statistic that best represents our newly-forged attitude?

We had this spirit before. Pulling out wins vs. AUS (05), IND (07,04), SA (07), PAK (99) also took the same kind of resolve. The first time we defeated ZIM 5-0, KEN 4-0 and won a Test was big too.

As for numbers and stats, it is Siddons who points to those to show what he believes is growth in leaps and bounds for us.

But for all the resolve in the IRE and ENG match we also showed that 'frail mentality of old' by allowing IND to score 370 and self imploding to 58 vs. WI.

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by samircreep
Here's a quick example:

Wins against both England and Ireland were big in my opinion. Both matches, by all accounts, were lost. In both matches, we never gave up. I have seen countless times were BD was in much, much better position than these two matches only to capitulate.

Win against Ireland was possible because the Irish batted crap at the later stage, aided by some accurate bowling from Shafi. Our batsmen contributed zero.

Our middle order collapsed like hell against the British. We were losing big time from comfortable position chasing a small total. Again the one man show of Shafi got us over the line.

I do not understand why the batting-focused coach gets credit for them.