UDRS under spotlight

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Neel Here
umm, was there any official communication on this ? I don't know. I thought press statements about why BCCI chose not to use UDRS is all we got.

India had/has rejected UDRS for any bilateral series.

http://www.facenfacts.com/NewsDetail...-referrals.htm

[snippets]

Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) secretary N Srinivasan said there was no real chance of the world's richest cricket body changing its stance.

"We don't accept this technology. We are not going to use it in any bilateral series," Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) secretary N Srinivasan has said.

The BCCI is so convinced of the technology's limitations that they turned down an offer to travel to Australia where UDRS made its Ashes debut.

"Yes, they were supposed to take us to see its use in the Ashes series but I did not go. We have made our presentation to the ICC, saying we are just not convinced about the technology," Srinivasan said.

Asked if cost was the discouraging factor, he said, "That's another issue but we have got serious doubts about its accuracy."

However, the UDRS will be used in this year's World Cup, jointly hosted by India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh from February 19.

"Well, World Cup is an ICC event and if ICC decided to use it, they obviously can," said Srinivasan, also the BCCI president-elect.

[_Rafi_]

Thanks boss, I have also a link before posting my previous post. It was obvious N_H vai will ask for some source-
http://www.theweatherchannel.co.nz/s...id=561196&vId=

[Neel Here]

thanks, this is the one I was talking about, I forgot that it included something about informing the ICC too.

[_Rafi_]

So, Doesn't it make BCCI liable for not making UDRS a part of the game?

[Neel Here]

BCCI is liable for not making UDRS a part of the game involving India, which they are completely within their rights to do. when did I say otherwise ?
(whether it is the right thing to do is a separate question)

btw,

Last ball of the previous over Tv comms reckon there was a noise and an edge when Strauss went down the track at Zaheer. Dhoni thought about appealing but wasn't sure. No snicko or hot spot of course

[_Rafi_]

Do you know the difference between direct and indirect?
BCCI is indirectly liable for this if not directly. Every country other than India wants UDRS to be implemented. India has a right to say yes but they use the right rather stupidely by denying UDRS. And the reason for such denial also stupid and hard to believe.
The reason BCCI provided rightfully create suspicion. The series against Sl where they got only one decision right may provide some circumstancial evidence for such suspicion.

[Neel Here]

your strong emotion on the topic is on display but unfortunately it falls seriously short on a little thing called logic.

as things stand BCCI has the right to choose whether or not to use UDRS in matches involving India. matches not involving India are free to use or refuse to use it and indeed many matches not involving India have used UDRS. if you think that makes BCCI 'directly/indirectly liable' then you need to buy a dictionary and look up the meaning of 'choice'.

India has a right to say yes but they use the right rather stupidely by denying UDRS. And the reason for such denial also stupid and hard to believe.

which is entirely subjective opinion and one can reasonably argue that you have been blinkered by your usual antipathy about anything involving India/BCCI.
if they have the right of choice, it is their right to choose. no one has any job second guessing why they are doing it. if you don't like it, get the ICC to change the rules and make it compulsory.
BUT before that happens, this constant whining makes people sound really petulant.

for that matter we saw how accurate UDRS or its laws are. bell was plumb in front with the ball hitting the middle of middle stump according to hawk-eye. it was given not out because of some arbitary law that it can't be out if the impact is 2.8 m away from the stumps ! if we trust hawk-eye, there is absolutely no way that was not out !

right now I've more respect for what N Srinivasan said, perhaps he knows what he is saying and UDRS is indeed inaccurate for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is ICC's inability to understand technology and frame rules accordingly.

The reason BCCI provided rightfully create suspicion. The series against Sl where they got only one decision right may provide some circumstancial evidence for such suspicion.

BCCI would create suspicion in your mind even if they donated their entire coffers to the red cross tomorrow .

but I do note that cricinfo's unrelenting campaign of suggestive reporting by inserting a reference to the SL tour in every related and unrelated article has borne fruit in impressionable minds.

[_Rafi_]

Now what, you read my mind? And show me where I made no logic. Personal attack?
You may agree with Srinibashon that UDRS is incorrect. But the incorrectness, if any, doing no harm to cricket. UDRS only can benefit cricket, no harm will be done by it. And denying such thing is pure idiotic by BCCI and Sriniba'n

[Neel Here]

personal attack ? pointing out a shortcoming in logic is personal attack ?
please report my post and ask a mod to check it then.

And show me where I made no logic.

I've already done so. I am sorry I don't know any simpler way to convey myself.

You may agree with Srinibashon that UDRS is incorrect. But the incorrectness, if any, doing no harm to cricket. UDRS only can benefit cricket, no harm will be done by it. And denying such thing is pure idiotic by BCCI and Sriniba'n

THAT, is what is called a personal opinion. others might have different (as in not same) opinion to yours. that DOES NOT 'prove' that you are right and they are wrong (or vice versa)

your attitude to others with different opinion would be commonplace and even celebrated in the middle ages but in the 21st century we try to practice something called 'respecting others views'. you might want to look it up.
people do not become evil or stupid or wrong just because their opinion do not match with yours.
by that logic you are also evil or stupid or just plain wrong because your opinion does not agree with theirs.

p.s. so you think deliberately twisting the spelling of srinivasan's name is some great way to win this argument ?
so original and mature of you !

[_Rafi_]

So UDRS doing no harm to cricket rather benefitting becomes a personal opinion. Show me where UDRS doing harm to cricket.
Where in above post I said the Shri man stupid...its their decision is stupid what I said. Don't you get it?
And why do you think I am deliberately mis-spelling his name? I didnt look at the spell when I was typing and that is just that. You are trying to make something out of everything.

[_Rafi_]

which is entirely subjective opinion and one can reasonably argue that you have been blinkered by your usual antipathy about anything involving India/BCCI

BCCI would create suspicion in your mind even if they donated their entire coffers to the red cross tomorrow .

what is this?. How do know I am usually against anything about India? Its not personal attack?

[Dilscoop]

^^ hah! Now he is after you. Typical Neel in an argument:

- You are wrong, straight up, Neel is not.
- You are the one who is being emotional, he is not- even though he is blind accusing you of something that you are not doing.
- Stop attacking India, even though your post says nothing about India.

Not to mention all those unnecessary personal attacks along the way.

[allrounder]

zimbabwe first ball duck BRM taylor.

[Eshen]

Ah! How dull the world cup would be without all those whining from the India team!

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Dilscoop
^^ hah! Now he is after you. Typical Neel in an argument:

- You are wrong, straight up, Neel is not.
- You are the one who is being emotional, he is not- even though he is blind accusing you of something that you are not doing.
- Stop attacking India, even though your post says nothing about India.

Not to mention all those unnecessary personal attacks along the way.

Ditto. To be perfectly honest, I'm quite sick of this attitude, and often refrain myself from responding to him. Good argument or bad, I'm guaranteed to lose the argument. So why bother?

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Ah! How dull the world cup would be without all those whining from the India team!

I can't find the CricInfo article where Dhoni was quoted ranting about the UDRS. I don't remember the exact words, but he was ranting about why the 2.5 meter rule was placed in the UDRS because if the hawk eye says the ball is going straight, it should be right.

Seriously? Is that how poor the logic is of the top test nation's captain? He just doesn't get the error margin, external influence, and all that?

Personally, I like Dhoni because he's a great athlete and well spoken, unlike most of the team that he has to tackle. But this argument of his is a little crybaby-ish.

[Nocturnal]

BCCI blocks technology for England tour
- Cricinfo link

[Jonas]

India block umpire decision review system in Test series in England

India have blocked the use of the umpire decision review system during this summer’s Test series against England under pressure from their senior players.

The Board for Cricket Control in India sent official notification to the England and Wales Cricket Board that it does not want the system to be used in the four-Test series.
Under International Cricket Council regulations the system can only be used with the consent of both boards. India’s senior men, including Sachin Tendulkar and MS Dhoni, have made it clear they do not trust the technology, enabling the BCCI to flex its considerable political muscle and win a concession for its leading stars.
It is a blow for Graeme Swann, who acknowledged during last winter’s Ashes tour the benefit he has gained from the technology. Of his 138 wickets, 29.71 per cent have been lbw, the second highest proportion of any bowler in Test history.
In the past, traditional finger spinners would have been lucky to get one lbw decision in every 20 appeals. Now with the DRS system consistently proving umpires incorrect when giving not-out decisions, that ratio has changed to about one in five.
India’s batsmen have grown up thinking they can kick away off-spinners on turning pitches without the fear of being given out lbw. But with Andrew Strauss now far more astute with his use of appeals, that tactic would have been dangerous this summer with the DRS system.
“The reason India do not want it is because it will favour our bowlers,” said John Emburey, the former England off-spinner. “It [DRS] has been massive for spinners because they are now getting wickets against batsmen playing on the front foot coming forward. It’s a massive advantage to the spinner. The system has shown balls would go on to hit the stumps and umpires have now got it in their minds that they can now give batsmen out.”
Emburey’s own career statistics show how the pre-DRS generation of off-spinners had little joy with umpires. He took 147 Test wickets but only 16 were lbw, some 10.88 per cent of his total dismissals.
“What DRS has done is make batsmen play with their bat rather than hide behind the pad which gives bowlers more chances of edges and catches because they have to play at the ball,” he said.
In May the ICC’s cricket committee recommended the use of DRS in all forms of the game. There are moves for this to be implemented at the board’s annual meeting later in June but convincing India will be tough.
Dhoni has been vocal in his opposition, particularly after Ian Bell was given not out by DRS during a World Cup match in Bangalore. Hawk-Eye showed the ball hitting the stumps but Bell was more than 2.5 metres down the pitch when he was hit, at which point the tracking system is deemed unreliable and the on-field umpire makes the call. Dhoni was baffled by the decision. “The adulteration of technology with human thinking meant we didn’t get that wicket,” he said.

Source

[Banglaguy]

If ICC do nothing about this, it is time to start calling them the BCCI. What the hell do they have against it? They know that they get the benefit of the doubt all the time. All the frikkin time. So if the decision gets reversed, they complain.

[Avik]

ICC should choose carefully to fight their fights with BCCI, so they can still win some. i think this is one of those fights. ICC should make the UDRS a must fixture for all test matches, and ODI and T20s also.

Dhoni is only sore of the UDRS because Bell wasnt out that day. this is very weak from greats like Dhoni and Tendulkar.

[MohammedC]

Can someone please move this thread to international section.

[al Furqaan]

the system is far from perfect...but perfecton exists only in dreams. BCCI needs to wake up and smell the coffee...the fact of the matter is, 90% of the wrong calls get overturned. thats better than 0% and you'd expect teh BCCI to understand that. but i guess they realize they have the clout to boss the ICC around and basically get rid of any umpire they don't like, including the DRS.

the DRS has been Bucknor'd.

[Banglaguy]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...ry/518893.html

Chris Tremlett has given his full support to the Decision Review System and admitted he is mystified by the Board for Control of Cricket in India's unwillingness to allow the DRS to be used in India's upcoming series against England.

"I am a fan of the system. If the technology is there it should be used," said Tremlett. "Who knows why they [India] don't want it involved. There have been a few decisions that have been rightly overturned and as a bowler you want those decisions given out. It's a fair way of doing things. I'm fully in agreement with it."

The DRS was introduced in 2009 and the ICC's cricket committee recommended in May this year that technology ought to be incorporated in all forms of the game. While some teams have struggled to adapt to the system, England are one side who have begun to show the benefits of a canny referral despite their early teething problems on tours of West Indies and South Africa.

DRS technology has been used without incident during the current Test series between England and Sri Lanka, and indeed Tremlett was one of the players to benefit from it when he removed Tillakaratne Dilshan after a referral during England's dramatic victory in the first Test at Cardiff.

"It's something that we like to use and it should be used in every Test if the technology is there and it's a shame that they don't want DRS involved in the India series."

Many of India's senior players, including Sachin Tendulkar and captain MS Dhoni, have been outspoken in their criticism of the DRS, however, and the BCCI have repeatedly stated that they are not satisfied with the accuracy of the technology used.

"The hot spot has shown that it works. In Australia we had a few decisions correctly overturned,'' countered Tremlett. "It is very accurate. Sometimes there is a lot of noise around a Test match and an umpire might not hear a fine nick so it's an important thing to have.

"Hawkeye is fair too so it'll be a shame. It has been a successful thing over the last six months."

A win against Sri Lanka in the third Test at the Rose Bowl, which begins on Thursday, would lift the England team to joint-second with South Africa in the Test rankings and, with or without the DRS, Tremlett is confident that England can go on to beat India and rise to No. 1.

"There's no reason why we can't win that series against India. This side is going from strength to strength and we're on a good winning streak at the moment. I'm fully confident that we can beat any side.

"We had success against Australia but the next step is to beat the No. 1 side in the world. If we can beat them convincingly then we will deserve to be No. 1."

[Banglaguy]

Graeme Swann believes no UDRS will not do much good for India

The English, off-spinner, Graeme Swann thinks that the absence of the Umpire ­Decision Review System (UDRS) will not benefit India as much, since the umpires have been learning from replays and are more confident in their decisions because of it.

“A few years ago not having UDRS would have been a blow but what’s happened is that umpires are far happier to give lbws out on the front foot,” Swann stated.

The 32-year old spinner is hoping that India will lose a couple of wickets which could have been saved had they supported the UDRS, which would be amusingly and ironic.

“Maybe we’ll get a couple that would have been ­overturned and it would be quite amusing if that happened.” He added.

Nearly 30% of Swann’s wickets have come from leg-before-wicket decisions ruled in his favour. Gaining a lot from the use of the UDRS system, the English spinner is a staunch advocate of it.

He questioned the Board of Control for Cricket in India’s (BCCI) reluctance to make full use of available technology, saying, “I don’t know if it’s distrust of technology or a bit of kidology on their part. If they don’t want to do it, fair enough.”

Swann, who has received much acclaim, draws comparisons with former English spinners Derek Underwood, Fred Titmus and Jim Laker and believes that his long wait for recognition has paid off.

Taking 12 wickets at an average of 25.75, Swann bore the burden of England’s spin attack during the recent ICC Cricket World Cup 2011.

Meanwhile, making fun of his teammates, the spinner revealed that he found no other uglier top-order than his national side’s, which includes Strauss, Cook and Trott.

He went ahead to say that watching Jonathan Trott and Alastair Cook bat, made him sleepy and he would not want to pay to see them play.

However, Swann acknowledged that they were good at what they did and he would not change anything about it. He is rather hoping that the trio gets to stay on the wicket longer due to the absence of UDRS, so he can spend more time in the dressing room.

http://blogs.bettor.com/Graeme-Swann...r-India-a75500

[nakedzero]

Consistency the key to DRS - Tendulkar

Sachin Tendulkar: "I am not against DRS, but I feel it will be more effective with the support of the Snickometer and Hot Spot technology"

The BCCI's refusal to accept the Decision Review System (DRS) for the forthcoming tour of England is a clear indication that India's stand on the subject has not moved from its team's initial reaction to the referral system in the 2008 series versus Sri Lanka. The system may now have been widely accepted around the world and the technology improved, yet the BCCI has not had any formal meetings with the Indian cricketers about their responses to the DRS in ICC events since their 2008 experience.

Sachin Tendulkar's name is often taken as one of the two Indian players (captain MS Dhoni the other) who is resistant to the referral system and therefore tacitly responsible for the BCCI's continuous refusal of the DRS.

On Thursday, Tendulkar reiterated to ESPNcricinfo that he was not against the use of the technology, "I am not against DRS, but I feel it will be more effective with the support of the Snickometer and Hot Spot technology. This will give more consistent results."

BCCI president Shashank Manohar said to ESPNcricinfo, "I have even told the ICC that we have no problem with Hot Spot. Our objection is to ball tracking.... it becomes just a case of someone else's imagination versus the umpire's imagination."

In the case of the England series, the availability of Hot Spot as part of the DRS was ignored when the BCCI decided to turn down the referral system. Hot Spot's thermal imaging cameras provide an extra layer of information about the point of impact to third umpires that may be able to make up for any possible inaccuracies of the predictor path.

Tendulkar says the merging of all available technology would come closest to 100% accuracy as possible and be of the best use in the DRS. His opinion comes close to that of both Virender Sehwag and Rahul Dravid who expressed support of the referral system, despite the Sri Lanka experience and early technological errors.

In the World Cup, however, Dhoni had called the DRS, the "adulteration" of technology and human decision-making.

More than one player on the Indian team has said in private that the DRS had often benefitted them and the team during the World Cup. Despite having Sehwag two referrals going against him in the semi-finals and the final, he said to a television reporter he still supported the system as it had given him the opportunity to ask for reviews of decisions he doubted."

Yet the DRS and its use depends not on player opinion, but official approval. BCCI officials were due to travel to Australia late last year during the Ashes to study the Virtual Eye technology being used by the official broadcasters Channel 9, but the trip was cancelled. Manohar said a presentation made by the Hawk-Eye to the BCCI in Chennai at the time did not convince the officials of the accuracy of the technology either.

As the BCCI remains adamant about the DRS, its technological base keeps improving. The first pictures of a system called Hot Track were tried out during the Ashes which merged Virtual Eye and Hot Spot, and use the Hot Spot point of impact to give extra information to the predictor path. BBG Sports, the owners of the Hot Spot, now own two new cameras that are being set up to be faster, offering more frames per second, greater clarity and greater flexibility.

Neither Hot Spot nor the Snicko, is part of the ICC's list of minimum technology requirements for the DRS. The question of whether there will be changes in the referral requirements or if the DRS should be made mandatory across all series, however, is dependent once again on the ICC's annual meeting in Hong Kong at the end of this month.

SOURCE