Debate: Do You Approve of Gambling? Why? Why Not?

[aklemalp]

Originally Posted by brockley
Thanks Aklemalp .
I will see where it leads and have fun on the way.
I have a lot of male friends 40+ single its quite common here.
I found single christian girls from going to church 20 years to be stuck up.
I tried the christian singles website and it was full of scammers.
I haven't been scammed on this website and no one has asked for money,so thats a relief.

You're welcome brockley bro

You gotta try something different than online sites. Head on over to the park, feed some of the animals there with bag of morsels or peanuts. Women love that.

It's worth a gamble

[Bigpage]

it's always destroyed the objects of cricket al times

[Fazal]

Is buying stock is a form of gambling?

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Is buying stock is a form of gambling?

well from the Islamic perspective from what I have read it isnt because you become a part owner of that company. But i guess if it is gambling in the normal sense is highly debatable. Some argue you can read the markets and etc. so it is not risky compared to gambling on poker machines but at the same time you can say the same thing about texas hold em that you can read the situation at hand and play accordingly. But if you have insider info then it ain't gambling is it he he he he he.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
well from the Islamic perspective from what I have read it isnt because you become a part owner of that company. .

Buying stocks is not gambling. When you purchase stocks, you buy a piece of the company. It sounds like gambling for people who lack understanding of the this simple fundementals. Our prophet was a businessman himself. Buying stock is no different than owning your halal store with 3 partners.

However what company you buy into matters. There are funds specially cater to Muslims ie Halal that avoid investing in companies that deal with alcohol, cigarettes, guns, pornography etc.

Quiet some time ago, one of those fund was in the news because it was beating the market quiet handsomely for a while.. apple being their number 1 company.

[G-man]

I spoke to a sheikh myself about this.

according to islamic finance, it is deemed haram if there are elements of uncertainty and/or risk and if the business engages in haram things (obviously). It is halal if the share holders make money along with the stock (or company itself). If markets were fully efficient then it would be halal- that's essentially what halal investments or islamic finance is.

Now in the example of running a halal butcher with partnersi s that, if the store makes money, the partners makes money. nothing dodgy, and only risk you assume is the risk of running a business, which is fair.

now if you buy shares in a company, that company could have pathetic balance sheets and never makes, but stock prices go through the roof- enron

now that's just stocks, if you were to discuss derivatives and everything evelse, then from my discissions with sheikhs, they all deem it haram simply because they fail to first udnerstand what derivatives are and what the yare used for. Authoritive figures just look at the compelxity of financial instruments and deem it haram. Now maybe being conservative like that is the way to go, but I beg to differ.

[G-man]

issue that hasn;t been addressed here is how does one define gambling. Any element of chance means a gamble...

[BengaliPagol]

what i am not sure either is that would those claw machines for kids and those kid type machines that you need $2 to play be haram because there is chance or an element of gambling to it?

[G-man]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
what i am not sure either is that would those claw machines for kids and those kid type machines that you need $2 to play be haram because there is chance or an element of gambling to it?

this needs a separate thread!

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by G-man
I spoke to a sheikh myself about this.

.

I should have stopped reading after this.

People love making things more complicated than it is.

A company like Enron maybe falsifying its data but it is impossible for you to know that. Your intentions were to purchase a piece of the company.

When a butcher shop goes on sale and if it's in the right area, the demand for the store front can create a price for the store that is much higher than its intrinsic value as a business (ie based on revenue/profit) - that does not mean you will sell your butcher store below the price of market demand because ideally the business itself is worth so much less....

Stock price simply reflects supply and demand.

[iDumb]

And in my opinion the only sheikh worth talking to is sheikh hasina.....

[G-man]

Originally Posted by iDumb
I should have stopped reading after this.

People love making things more complicated than it is.

A company like Enron maybe falsifying its data but it is impossible for you to know that. Your intentions were to purchase a piece of the company.

When a butcher shop goes on sale and if it's in the right area, the demand for the store front can create a price for the store that is much higher than its intrinsic value as a business (ie based on revenue/profit) - that does not mean you will sell your butcher store below the price of market demand because ideally the business itself is worth so much less....

Stock price simply reflects supply and demand.

I only said that because i did't just google it. but the sheikh V google thing is a discussion on it's own

[zman]

Originally Posted by G-man
if you were to discuss derivatives and everything evelse, then from my discissions with sheikhs, they all deem it haram simply because they fail to first udnerstand what derivatives are and what the yare used for. Authoritive figures just look at the compelxity of financial instruments and deem it haram. Now maybe being conservative like that is the way to go, but I beg to differ.

I get your post and most of it makes sense. This is the part where the sheikh definitely got it right. With stocks you own a piece of the business or company. By adding up all the stocks you get the actual net worth of a company. Problem with most derivatives is, although their value is derived from the underlying asset (by definition), their notional value is allowed to far exceed the value of the underlying asset. And this is a huge problem. With credit default swaps (CDS) for instance, you could have a million dollar company and sell a billion dollar worth of CDS for the company. Each CDS is a contract allowing the holder of the contract to make money in the event the company fails to pay off its debt.

I remember when the financial crisis happened the notional value of all derivatives was worth over a quadrillion dollars, which is a thousand trillion. This amount was 20 times the size of the world economy at the time. In a world of unregulated derivatives most people are bound to lose a lot of money. And the leader of the free world just paved the way for it to happen again by repealing Dodd-Frank

[adamnsu]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Buying stocks is not gambling. When you purchase stocks, you buy a piece of the company. It sounds like gambling for people who lack understanding of the this simple fundementals. Our prophet was a businessman himself. Buying stock is no different than owning your halal store with 3 partners.

However what company you buy into matters. There are funds specially cater to Muslims ie Halal that avoid investing in companies that deal with alcohol, cigarettes, guns, pornography etc.

Quiet some time ago, one of those fund was in the news because it was beating the market quiet handsomely for a while.. apple being their number 1 company.

Quite a mature and educated answer from you. Keep it up