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  #1226  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:22 AM
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Disappointed to see the release order of Sheik Selim. The govt needs to make sure that there are no holes in the charge sheet.
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  #1227  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:32 AM
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the judge is an awami leaguer...
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  #1228  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:42 AM
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The release order was based on unclear charges and the writ appeal was submitted a while ago. I think this release order will be be overrulled soon since there is definite charges against him now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
Disappointed to see the release order of Sheik Selim. The govt needs to make sure that there are no holes in the charge sheet.
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  #1229  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akabir77
the judge is an awami leaguer...
lol... I know so many people who would say this without even thinking about it!
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  #1230  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman
The release order was based on unclear charges and the writ appeal was submitted a while ago. I think this release order will be be overrulled soon since there is definite charges against him now.
But werent the charges that are specific now obtained through the confession that was obtained in a illegal way? Shouldn't that make confession invalid and hence any charges stemming from it also invalid?
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  #1231  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
The govt needs to make sure that there are no holes in the charge sheet.
I have been saying this for the last few weeks, and the some of the "esteemed" members of this board were calling me this and that for even mentioning it.
If the government followed a process for identifying criminals/corrupt people and then arresting them, i.e. a transparent process then this would not have happened.

Well i dont blame the CTG, most of the advisors do not have a clue as to who is going to be arrested on what charges.
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  #1232  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
But werent the charges that are specific now obtained through the confession that was obtained in a illegal way? Shouldn't that make confession invalid and hence any charges stemming from it also invalid?
I don't know whether Salim's confession is legal or not. Could you please tell us a bit elaborately, how to obtain a legal confession?
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  #1233  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_dorshok
I don't know whether Salim's confession is legal or not. Could you please tell us a bit elaborately, how to obtain a legal confession?
I have no expertese on this kind of law. However, this is my understanding
Sheikh Selim was arrested without any specific charges according to the HC. Thus, if he was taken on remand based on that charge, I would assume that would also be invalid. And if during that remand, he confessed something, following the same logic it would be invalid. However, i donno whether the confession was a followup of the charge.
Based on that confession the specific chargesheet has been made, and if the basis of the chargesheet is invalid then would the chargesheet with specific charges be valid? Its a question I have.
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  #1234  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:37 AM
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I don't think the charges were obtained through confessions alone. Some strong allegations were on file already that's why he was remanded. Those allegations, confessions and other discoveries through investigations and other procedures allowed the prosecutors to formally make the charges within a set time frame. These procedures are different from that of the western countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
But werent the charges that are specific now obtained through the confession that was obtained in a illegal way? Shouldn't that make confession invalid and hence any charges stemming from it also invalid?
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  #1235  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:00 PM
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Post deleted by user

Last edited by Special 1; July 26, 2007 at 12:05 PM..
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  #1236  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman
I don't think the charges were obtained through confessions alone. Some strong allegations were on file already that's why he was remanded. Those allegations, confessions and other discoveries through investigations and other procedures allowed the prosecutors to formally make the charges within a set time frame. These procedures are different from that of the western countries.
I think you are making a mistake here sumwhere. Or maye i am wrong.
As i see it, the confessions came after he was taken on remand based on a chargesheet that was based on some allegations. However, the court decided that those allegations were not good enuf to arrest him. Thus making his arrest illegal.
I am not thus sure, whether the confessions he made has any validity now? According to the lawyers of Hasina, the reason why a chargesheet was made was because of the confession under 556 or sth like that, or else it should have been a full investigation report. its a lil complicated as you can see
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  #1237  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:17 PM
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If you actually listen to the confessions closely, you'll hear the investigators say "we have the report, and the report gives us every little detail about what you did...we just want to test your honesty by asking you that whatever we'll read out to you here, do you agree on doing it or not".

If the confession tape is original, there is absolutely NO sign of aggression or anything. Only at one point, one of the investigators said "why are you stretching a simple confession into something so complicated...if i slap you on your face now, you'll fall on the floor and won't be able to speak at all...do you want me to do that? you're a respected person, i don't want to do that...so it's better that you cooperate".

I don't see a reason why his arrest and detention is illegal. Unfortunately, politics don't work the same way that a rational brain does.
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  #1238  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
I think you are making a mistake here sumwhere. Or maye i am wrong.
Can't go wrong with this

Wish I had some explanations that might pleases you Let's pray for the truth to come out and all innocents be freed.
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  #1239  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
If you actually listen to the confessions closely, you'll hear the investigators say "we have the report, and the report gives us every little detail about what you did...we just want to test your honesty by asking you that whatever we'll read out to you here, do you agree on doing it or not".

If the confession tape is original, there is absolutely NO sign of aggression or anything. Only at one point, one of the investigators said "why are you stretching a simple confession into something so complicated...if i slap you on your face now, you'll fall on the floor and won't be able to speak at all...do you want me to do that? you're a respected person, i don't want to do that...so it's better that you cooperate".

I don't see a reason why his arrest and detention is illegal. Unfortunately, politics don't work the same way that a rational brain does.
You will have to read the high court ruling to find out why the arrest was illegal.
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  #1240  
Old July 26, 2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman
Can't go wrong with this

Wish I had some explanations that might pleases you Let's pray for the truth to come out and all innocents be freed.
ditto
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  #1241  
Old July 26, 2007, 01:19 PM
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  #1242  
Old July 26, 2007, 03:30 PM
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I thought this is a pretty decent article from DS point-counter section

Quote:
Sheikh Hasina's arrest and its aftermath
Shamsuddin Ahmed

Sheikh Hasina's arrest has sparked off a spate of comments, mainly accusing the government of being unnecessarily harsh on her, if the post-arrest news commentaries and the talk shows on TV are any guide, given that AL supporters greatly outnumber the party's detractors in spite of the dismal performance of the last AL government. The media pictures of the arrest, showing Hasina holding a "tasbih" (prayer beads) in her hand and looking grim, were simply superb, to say the least. Even some of the worst critics of her rule have called the arrest unjustified.
In a third world country like ours where, for centuries, a tiny, wealthy class of people has ruled over the vast multitude of poor people, and where foreign rulers have been replaced by native rulers, we have a queer concept of the ruler and the ruled.
Here, in this land of ours, the common people are wont to behave like a herd of sheep or cattle, and anyone who can somehow step into the corridors of power and throw a few crumbs among the half-naked and unfed crowds becomes an instant hero or heroine, and is anointed the leader of the people.
We take very little time in lionising this leader for a small deed not worthy of notice in civilised societies, and condemning the same leader for deeds which run counter to our interest or to the winds of change blowing at the time.
We adore the leader and sing hymns in his or her praise, to the point of deification. And soon the leader becomes conceited and megalomaniacal, and begins to think that it is he or she who alone matters and the rest of the flock must obey and show fealty to him or her.
The leader becomes arrogant, peevish, and resentful of criticism, and scornful of those who speak of equal opportunities and the rule of law. Do we find these traits in our leaders? Khaleda loves being addressed as "Madam" and Hasina as "netri" (leader) by party leaders and workers, like Hitler was called "fuhrer" (leader) by the Nazis. Besides, one has been given the appellation
"jono-netri" (leader of the people), and the other "desh-netri" (leader of the country).
Gen Hussain Muhammad Ershad loved being addressed as "sir." He also desired that his wife Rawshon Ershad be referred to as "First Lady."
We also have a breed of sycophants and cronies amongst us, who keep multiplying as months progress into a year and years into a decade. This is a dangerous breed of people. They will either praise you to the skies, or pull you down to earth and consign you to the dustbin of history in no time. They will either bow their heads down in obeisance to you, or slander you or stab you in the back.
We have another quality in abundance in us. While the sycophants keep singing for the ruler of the day, we decry the leader for all his failings and follies, which are plentiful, and join the opposition chorus in condemning him and demanding not only his immediate fall from power but also his wholesale burial as political garbage.
And interestingly enough, as we become quickly disenchanted with the new ruler and see the litany of his vices and irritating pranks, we turn to this political garbage, retrieve him or her from the lowly pedestal and make him or her an idol of the opposition to the powers that be.
We as a nation are either short on memory or long on forgetfulness, which is why we do not stick with anything for long. It is against this background that both Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina have not only survived all these years but also remained potent forces in our politics, despite their horrendous records of failure to deliver and their myriad misdeeds while in power.
As it is, our euphoria with the caretaker government seems to be ebbing away fast, now that a hint of the military jostling with power is discernible in the eyes of those who pathologically suffer from military phobia. No wonder, therefore, that there is a surfeit of sympathy for Sheikh Hasina who is in jail, and for Khaleda Zia who is likely to be taken into custody as well.
Let us not forget that both Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia had a role to play, as they both presided over administrations besmirched with rampant corruption and criminalization of politics.
Now coming to the point of Sheikh Hasina's arrest, Heaven has not fallen down just because she has been arrested and kept in a sub-jail. In democracy, nobody is above the law. And if that be the case, why can't Sheikh Hasina be arrested when there is a prima facie case of extortion against her?
What makes her, or for that matter Khaleda Zia, so special that they cannot be arrested for crimes and offences which warrant that the offender or the accused be taken into custody in the interest of justice and fair trial? Allowing powerful and politically influential people like Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia to move freely is likely to jeopardise the case of the prosecution and the collection of relevant evidence against them.
Being the daughter of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the founder of this country, and being a former prime minister and the chief of AL does not give Sheikh Hasina any immunity from arrest and prosecution. Let the court of justice decide, and set her free on bail if the cause of justice warrants it.
But to say that arresting Sheikh Hasina is unwarranted is putting the cart before the horse, and runs very much counter to the spirit of democracy. It is one thing that we have not practiced democracy in this country all these years, but this does not mean that we will not practice democracy now and in future.
Sheikh Hasina has tried to draw a parallel between her arrest by the government and the arrest of her illustrious father Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman by the Pakistan army in 1971. This is preposterous and utterly ludicrous. While she has none of the great qualities and charisma of that icon and pride of this country, she often tries to invoke his fond memories and say that she is like him, only to further her selfish interest in building a personal fortune.
Have we forgotten how she misgoverned this country and made a mess of it? Do we want to give her a shot in the arm so that she and the likes of her in AL can go on looting and plundering again as they had done before? Has the nation forgotten the passing of the Father of the Nation Family Members Security Act, whereby she and her sister sought to live in comfort and dignity, almost like members of a royal family, for as long as they lived, all at state expense?
Or do we want a transition to a truly democratic dispensation in this country, and make those guilty of hindering this democratic process account for their misdeeds? Let us opt for the latter, and let us not go back to those dark days ante 1/11.
Brigadier General Shamsuddin Ahmed is a Freedom Fighter.
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  #1243  
Old July 26, 2007, 06:17 PM
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This was posted earlier on this thread. Thanks -
It looks like BD did not bring back stolen money from overseas sources yet. BD doesn't have experience in how to do this. Only Philippines, Panama and Nigeria succeeded in bringing back some money stolen by ther past dictators - suggested by the news.

The link below shows :
http://www.newagebd.com/front.html#1

" Banking information available from the receiver country cannot be produced in any court, but can be used in the interrogation process.

The government can then initiate cases against the accused and after getting the verdict, it can formally approach the receiver country for the repatriation, which needs another agreement, a central banker elaborated.

The whole process can take years since banks are not bound to give details of deposits as and when asked."

Quote:
Originally Posted by allrounder
Not a penny of illegal offshore money repatriated yet
Central bank contradicts govt claims, says all money deposited from local sources.

The country’s monetary authorities have said that not a single penny from offshore deposits of corruption suspects or shady business deals has yet been brought back to the country, contradicting the government’s claims that several hundred crores of takas sent illegally abroad have been repatriated.
The government is also yet to ascertain any information about the exact amount of money or assets stolen from the country and deposited in foreign countries, officials have further told New Age.
The finance and planning adviser, Mirza Azizul Islam, in his budget speech on June 7 said, ‘This is for the first time in the history of Bangladesh that we have taken initiatives to bring back the money illegally transferred to foreign countries. Already a total of about Tk 350 crore has been brought back and deposited into the government exchequer.’
But the central bank governor on Sunday contradicted the finance adviser’s statement, saying that no money has been repatriated so far and whatever amount has been deposited with the exchequer has come from local sources. ‘Not a single penny has come from abroad,’ Salehuddin Ahmed told New Age.
He however said that the government is supposed to sign memorandums of understanding with the Malaysian and Singapore authorities soon, which will facilitate sharing of deposit information.
Repatriation of money siphoned off from the country by corruption suspects is an uphill task since there is no official or banking agreement with any foreign country in this regard, a central bank official said.
Over Tk 450 crore was deposited with the exchequer after the interim government toughened its stance on ill-gotten money, but the amount did not come from abroad and were paid from local sources through cheques and pay orders, he said.
The Bangladesh Bank governor on July 2 at a programme admitted that no money has been repatriated into the country so far. The central bank needs to get detailed information in hand about illegally transferred money before taking steps to bring the amount back, he said.
Recovering stolen assets from abroad entails a complex procedure with international dimension, said an official of the central bank, adding the country does not have any experience on this issue.
Collection of information regarding stolen asset recovery is the first step and for that there has to be an agreement signed between sender and receiver countries, officials said.
Banking information available from the receiver country cannot be produced in any court, but can be used in the interrogation process.
The government can then initiate cases against the accused and after getting the verdict, it can formally approach the receiver country for the repatriation, which needs another agreement, a central banker elaborated.
The whole process can take years since banks are not bound to give details of deposits as and when asked.



source: http://newagebd.com/front.html#1
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  #1244  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:19 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
Chargesheet toh toiri hoise akhon.
This is the start, eijey ato manush eikhane khub khusi chilo nah about all these people getting sentences from the lower court. HC jeye most verdicts will be overturned.
I see it completely other way, most of them are corrupted ( abusing power, making illegal money & wealth, not paying tax etc. ) one way or another, hence it is highly unlikely that 'MOST' verdicts will be overturned in HC. Rather few of them could be overturned or reduced punishment, which is again regular procedure in justice. The gulf difference is ( compare to old days ), none of them ever was prosecuted and taken to justice for trial without interruption, but this time. If you follow the names and verdict of recent ACC cases or others, most of them wont have favor from any community anymore, let alone court or remaining politicians.

We just have to wait and see till end.
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  #1245  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
You will have to read the high court ruling to find out why the arrest was illegal.
Well, at least you (and your pals) can agree that the court isn't run by CTG.
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  #1246  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:27 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
Disappointed to see the release order of Sheik Selim. The govt needs to make sure that there are no holes in the charge sheet.
He is not going to be released anytime soon, since charge sheet has been already submitted against him along with Hasina.
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  #1247  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:41 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
But werent the charges that are specific now obtained through the confession that was obtained in a illegal way? Shouldn't that make confession invalid and hence any charges stemming from it also invalid?
The court says, initial charge against him was not specific enough to hold him arrested, but how come any confession on a crime and corruption become invalid, when someone was arrested as suspect with some evidence?
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  #1248  
Old July 26, 2007, 10:55 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
If you actually listen to the confessions closely, you'll hear the investigators say "we have the report, and the report gives us every little detail about what you did...we just want to test your honesty by asking you that whatever we'll read out to you here, do you agree on doing it or not".

If the confession tape is original, there is absolutely NO sign of aggression or anything. Only at one point, one of the investigators said "why are you stretching a simple confession into something so complicated...if i slap you on your face now, you'll fall on the floor and won't be able to speak at all...do you want me to do that? you're a respected person, i don't want to do that...so it's better that you cooperate".
Well, I was waiting for the comments, those who questioned the confession was taken by force, troture, heck even by electric shock! I was shocked when I read in newspaper even Rehana claimed that Mr. Selim might be given 'electric shock' for this confess.
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  #1249  
Old July 26, 2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorFan
Well, I was waiting for the comments, those who questioned the confession was taken by force, troture, heck even by electric shock! I was shocked when I read in newspaper even Rehana claimed that Mr. Selim might be given 'electric shock' for this confess.
I have also heard a lot of people saying that they were tortured to confess. It has been a regular practice forever and its even being done in the US (at guantanamo). So, I wouldnt be surprised if these men are being tortured to confess all sorts of things. However, there is also a possibility that all these complaints are politically motivated and the burden of proof is on them.
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  #1250  
Old July 27, 2007, 01:20 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special 1
I have also heard a lot of people saying that they were tortured to confess. It has been a regular practice forever and its even being done in the US (at guantanamo). So, I wouldnt be surprised if these men are being tortured to confess all sorts of things. However, there is also a possibility that all these complaints are politically motivated and the burden of proof is on them.
You are always Special ( excellent ) in comparing apple and orange. Yet again you brought up guantanamo, a totally different issue ( prisoner of war against terrorism ), took place in different place ( isolated army base camp ) and circumstance ( captured in a war field ).

Had it been Mr. Salim was bombing all over the country like JMB ( since we don't have war against terrorism couldn't find better example than JMB ) and captured on the spot, I would have convinced a bit by people like you. Had it been he interrogation in a army camp in a war place like Iraq, Afghanistan, I would have less doubt on your claim. Even more, had it been Mr. Salim a top listed criminal of BD, who killed and terrorized peoples life for nothing, still I would have some sympathy of your kind.

You through garbage all over the place and ask people to clean it up? come on! If you raise question of torture, the burden of proof is yours, that your claim has merit, not mine or any other people.
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