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  #26  
Old February 16, 2019, 01:40 PM
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Like others have said I very much enjoy TBF's posts even when I disagree with him on political matters. But I must say I side with iDumb and Mufi on this issue. People are talking about the ill effects of gentrification and tax breaks, but they're not talking about the $27 Billion taxes Amazon would've paid over 10 years. The 25k jobs would end up being a drop in the bucket compared to other investments they would've attracted and the actual number of additional low and mid level jobs they also would've created. Amazon had offered to partner up with 30 local schools initially and make them high tech institutions while agreeing to increase that number over time. Most importantly it would've established NYC as a legitimate tech hub. 5 yrs ago I left the tristate area and moved to DC for this very reason. NYC still has plenty of tech jobs but they don't even compare to the number and quality of opportunities in DC area. Trying to negotiate a better deal with Amazon would've been the better option Instead of just pushing them out.
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  #27  
Old February 16, 2019, 01:56 PM
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^To your point what VA is doing right to attract tech jobs and Amazon --

Quote:
The Amazon deal in Virginia shows that a different approach is possible.

Virginia offered Amazon $550 million in job-creation grants, which the company will receive only after delivering the proposed 25,000 jobs, with additional subsidies available if the company creates as many as 37,850 jobs. Virginia’s relatively small offer to Amazon reflected the state’s very few as-of-right incentives.

Virginia threw into the package more than $1 billion in additional taxpayer funds to build a pipeline of technical workers and improve transportation. This portion of the “subsidy” will not go directly into Amazon’s pockets but into Virginia schools, universities, and local agencies. It is nearly twice the amount offered to Amazon, a signal that investing in the local work force is more important than offering sweeteners to Amazon.

Finally, the governor’s office, key state legislators and city and county council officials worked together to address anticipated concerns from their constituency, whether from rural areas or in the neighborhoods surrounding National Landing, the proposed site for the new Amazon facility.

As in New York, residents in Northern Virginia have expressed concerns around housing affordability and how local residents will benefit. Yet Virginia’s approach has muted the criticism. Amazon, like any employer in the area, got a functioning partnership with the city and state, predictability and a commitment to producing engineers and other skilled workers, all of which matter more to companies than the size of a subsidy
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/o...gtype=Homepage
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  #28  
Old February 17, 2019, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
dumb AOC logic: We can use the tax money amazon is getting to fix our crumbling subway system.

Reality: Where is the money? It's a tax BREAK YOU DUMB a%&^ that would create real revenue via employee and empoyer payroll taxes every year.. not to talk about all the other tax revenues from increased businesses to support that influx of ppl. There is NO money that's being handed out. It's NO BODY"S money..... it's a tax break and cost nyc ZERO dollars.
AOC is only 29 and not Harvard educated so occaisionally gets confused. I remember she made a similar gaffe when she admitted she didn't really know the legal specifics of Israeli settlements vis a vis international law and the right wing crucified her for it.

I think the main takeaway is that NYC-Queens-Democrats were opposed to Amazon because of their opposition to the proven fallacy of trickle down economics. Its a good theory or a good sounding theory...but in reality it doesn't work. If you give rich people tax cuts, they would take that extra money and reinvest it into the economy thereby increasing jobs and wages for the poor and middle classes. In theory it sounds reasonable and sound, but in practice I don't think its worked out. Did middle and working class Americans benefit from the Bush tax cuts? Probably not, because I think that was the cause of the 2008 recession. The Trump tax cuts also have widely reported to not have worked in the trickle down sense. The economy and stock market are doing well...but there is also a lot of volatility. Also, the looming trade war with China will eventually cause a pretty nasty collapse in the coming years if not months.
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  #29  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:29 AM
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Now NY officials and union leaders are begging Amazon to come back.

Open letter from CEOs, politicians, and labor leaders asks Amazon to return to NYC
Admits state was “not very welcoming”

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/1...liticians-ceos

Open Letter - https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...ull.pdf#page=1

Andrew Cuomo Speaks With Jeff Bezos, Furiously Trying to Win Back Amazon
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/n...azon.com%20Inc.

cmon NY make up your mind. what happened to the progressive ideals now?
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  #30  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:32 AM
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  #31  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:37 AM
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Cuomo was never a progressive. He is a sold out corporate democrat, who went on several disgruntled rants after Amazon pulled out and now he is begging to Amazon. No surprise here. Probably he has some secret deal that would have personally benefited him.

Cuomo is a disgrace.
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  #32  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:50 AM
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^Read the open letter and look at the names of the signatories. It includes CEOs, union leaders, local community leaders, and even Queens Public Library. Are all of them disgraceful and sell out?

I will give you some time to look up that info in Huff Post or Counterpunch or counterdemocracy or whatever socialist filth you read.
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  #33  
Old March 1, 2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
^Read the open letter and look at the names of the signatories. It includes CEOs, union leaders, local community leaders, and even Queens Public Library. Are all of them disgraceful and sell out?

I will give you some time to look up that info in Huff Post or Counterpunch or counterdemocracy or whatever socialist filth you read.
I have opened the letter, and I only see the names of CEOs, university presidents, and congressmen.

I see no name of union leaders or local community leaders.

CEOs are not representative of people. And it is not surprising either that CEOs and corporatist politicians are supporting a megalomaniac ruthless monopolist.

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  #34  
Old March 1, 2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
I have opened the letter, and I only see the names of CEOs, university presidents, and congressmen.

I see no name of union leaders or local community leaders.

CEOs are not representative of people. And it is not surprising either that CEOs and corporatist politicians are supporting a megalomaniac ruthless monopolist.
Do you have any idea who Bezos the person is? What is his story? Have you been ever in his shoes? Calling someone names is easy but does not show much prudence.
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  #35  
Old March 2, 2019, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
Do you have any idea who Bezos the person is? What is his story? Have you been ever in his shoes? Calling someone names is easy but does not show much prudence.
PRUDENCE? If anything, I have been too kind to Bezos in my name calling.

- not paying living wage
- forcing people to work with injury
- forcing its warehouse workers to pee in bottles
- crushing unions with iron hand
- buying WaPo and controlling the narrative of a country like USA in his favor
- paying zero in taxes despite having profit in billions

The guy is CROOKED to the core.

Regarding Amazon HQ moving to NY and job creation, it is another form of blackmailing of government by Amazon. The issue needs a very nuanced discussion but in this age of soundbite, Republican and corporate Dems picked only one soundbite "JOBs".

- Amazon will create 25k jobs, but is there any guarantee? What if they don't create as many jobs as they have promised? Can they be hold accountable if they fall short?

- The jobs are primarily white collar jobs. Are there enough qualified New Yorkers to be employed? Or will they be outsourced? If outsourced, what benefit will it bring to NY?

- This move will cause housing price to go up.

And there are many other drawbacks.
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