Spin Pipeline

[BanCricFan]

Its too early for Taskin. Unless, you want to see him breakdown like Mash. Let him, inshaallah, first play the CWC down under and then we could see...

And, oneday you will regret dissing Rubel like that. Someone will open a thread entitled "where are the geniuses who wanted to drop..."

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
To add to what Tiger444 has said, you simply don't compare our "FC" stats to Test records. Riyad has played a lot of Test matches amongst all the FC matches. He averages 28.36 with the bat in TEST which is mighty good for our lads. Has quite a few TEST wickets, too. Which is quite handy, to say the least. Man! You're almost making me sound like a Riyad "fan". Also, you JUST don't drop a batsman who has just scored two Test 50s against a very good attack to make away for a "talented" bat! This is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard. Also, you just don't give "a go" to a player because its ONLY Zim. This is even more absurd. We are not Aus, SA or Eng...not just yet. The last time we played Zim they beat us in a Test -just a little humble reminder.

I agree. Can't really drop Riyad, somebody who to his credit, did pretty well on this tour.

That said, Riyad still has to prove himself more. He might have saved his butt this tour but it doesn't make up for the failures he's had in Tests over the last few years. So he has to keep it up or else his spot will be under scrutiny again.

[Tiger444]

Rubel, Robiul, Shafiul and Al-Amin are all pretty similar ability wise. Overall stats doesn't paint the whole picture. Rubel is right up there with the others when it comes to bowling outside of Asia. Robiul's is obviously much better than the others because of the Zimbabwe series but we still don't know if that was just a one off tour or not. The others are pretty similar. Robiul a 33, Al-Amin a 50, and both Rubel and Shafiul a 59 to be exact.

At home, again all our bowlers have terrible averages. Shafiul a 70, Al-Amin a 96, Rubel a 139 and Robiul a 227.

Our pace bowling is just that pathetic and to this date, only Shahadat and Mash were Test class pacers at one point. Sadly, they're our best options from the looks of it. Good thing is they're still young so hopefully they can improve but we might have to live with 50-60 average pacers for a while

[BanCricFan]

^^
Of course, Riyad is just about breaking even as far as his spot in the Test. I am NOT a fan of Riyad at all. But, It doesn't stop me being fair. The Great Sissy has done enough to save his rear. Infact, he is very adept at that. Thas the bloody frustrating part. You would not want him in your side nor can you leave him out. Better we just shoot him!

And, as far as him being very inconsistent...well, allow me to give you an intro to all BD cricketers...

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
^^
Of course, Riyad is just about breaking even as far as his spot in the Test. I am NOT a fan of Riyad at all. But, It doesn't stop me to be fair. The Great Sissy has done enough to save his rear. He is very adept at that. Thas the bloody frustrating part. You would not want him in your side nor can you leave him out. Better we just shoot him!

And, as far as him being very inconsistent...well, allow me to give you an intro to all BD cricketers...

We might take the frustration out on Riyad for being a sissy but it shouldn't go only on Riyad. What have others done when given chances? Others haven't really proved themselves either. If others really took their chances, either Riyad would have to improve his performances or be out of the team.

This lack of competition is what really hurts our team.

[BanCricFan]

Originally Posted by Tiger444
...
Our pace bowling is just that pathetic and to this date, only Shahadat and Mash were Test class pacers at one point. Sadly, they're our best options from the looks of it. Good thing is they're still young so hopefully they can improve but we might have to live with 50-60 average pacers for a while

That. But, bulk of the blame fall squarly on the "shoulders" of the BCB lot. They have never tried to answer our pace problems properly. No Pace Academy, sporting pitches, looking after pace bowlers (Talha and SRK), steady specialist coaches at every levels, meaningful domestic tournaments etc etc.

With proper guidance and structure in place the likes of Rubel, Taskin, Abu Jayed, Al-Amin, Abul Hasan and couple of left armers (can't quite recall their names atm) could be turned into match-winners.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
That. But, bulk of the blame fall squarly on the "shoulders" of the BCB lot. They have never tried to answer our pace problems properly. No Pace Academy, sporting pitches, looking after pace bowlers (Talha and SRK), steady specialist coaches at every levels, meaningful domestic tournaments etc etc.

With proper guidance and structure in place the likes of Rubel, Taskin, Abu Jayed, Al-Amin, Abul Hasan and couple of left armers (can't quite recall their names atm) could be turned into match-winners.

Agreed. With the right type of support, these pacers could've gone further but BCB continues to ignore our pace problems. At least with the batting, we can see some improvements, even though it's not where it should be but the pace situation is just dire and it hasn't really improved.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
To add to what Tiger444 has said, you simply don't compare our "FC" stats to Test records. Riyad has played a lot of Test matches amongst all the FC matches. He averages 28.36 with the bat in TEST which is mighty good for our lads. Has quite a few TEST wickets, too. Which is quite handy, to say the least. Man! You're almost making me sound like a Riyad "fan". Also, you JUST don't drop a batsman who has just scored two Test 50s against a very good attack to make away for a "talented" bat! This is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard. Also, you just don't give "a go" to a player because its ONLY Zim. This is even more absurd. We are not Aus, SA or Eng...not just yet. The last time we played Zim they beat us in a Test -just a little humble reminder.

28 is good by our lads, horrible way to rate a player, rate him by test standards please and 28 is poor. take out test matches and hom still has a better FC record than riyad.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Why the hell would Rubel warrant a spot with his 80+ average and 100+ strike rate??? Robiul is far better, at least bowls the odd wicket taking delivery. Taskin, Robiul, Shafiul for me.

because the selectors like him, i wouldn't pick him for the squad but there is a good chance he could.

[Gowza]

oh and i know what i said about riyad/hom is the most logical or fair, as said riyad just scored 2 test half tons but i am so sick of him doing just enough to save himself then doing nothing to help the team for another year, it's not like he played a match winning or saving innings, his innings (as his bigger innings tend to) had no impact on the match and for someone who has been in the team for 7 years that just isn't good enough.

and i'll never accept a batting average of 28 to be worthy of selection just because it's good by BD standards, i'd prefer to take a gamble and try someone else.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by Gowza
oh and i know what i said about riyad/hom is the most logical or fair, as said riyad just scored 2 test half tons but i am so sick of him doing just enough to save himself then doing nothing to help the team for another year, it's not like he played a match winning or saving innings, his innings (as his bigger innings tend to) had no impact on the match and for someone who has been in the team for 7 years that just isn't good enough.

and i'll never accept a batting average of 28 to be worthy of selection just because it's good by BD standards, i'd prefer to take a gamble and try someone else.

If he was just a batsman, he would've been out a long time ago but it's the combo that he brings with his bowling and batting that has kept him in the team. His bowling average is as good or better than some of our specialist spinners. That itself helps him a lot in making the team, and then obviously with his batting, he makes himself more useful than a specialist bowler and batsman.

Shuvagata should take Nasir's place when Shakib comes back because Nasir has not been helpful in any way.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Gowza
because the selectors like him, i wouldn't pick him for the squad but there is a good chance he could.

Oh OK. I was afraid you actually thought he could do some damage.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Tiger444
If he was just a batsman, he would've been out a long time ago but it's the combo that he brings with his bowling and batting that has kept him in the team. His bowling average is as good or better than some of our specialist spinners. That itself helps him a lot in making the team, and then obviously with his batting, he makes himself more useful than a specialist bowler and batsman.

Shuvagata should take Nasir's place when Shakib comes back because Nasir has not been helpful in any way.

This is something I go back and forth with, nasir was world class and test class for much longer than riyad was which is why nasir should get a longer leash imo, but riyad just scored runs so I don't think there is a clear cut decision on this despite nasir being in poor form.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Oh OK. I was afraid you actually thought he could do some damage.

I gave up on rubel for tests awhile ago, he still has potential but he's had enough chances without results to keep picking him.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Gowza
I gave up on rubel for tests awhile ago, he still has potential but he's had enough chances without results to keep picking him.

No, he never had potential. Just a bit of reverse swing and quicker than the average BD seamer, that's all. If he had potential he'd have taken a few five wicket hauls like Shahadat, who really had potential. 5-165 shouldn't even count. His wicket to innings ratio is less than 1...facepalm.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
No, he never had potential. Just a bit of reverse swing and quicker than the average BD seamer, that's all. If he had potential he'd have taken a few five wicket hauls like Shahadat, who really had potential. 5-165 shouldn't even count. His wicket to innings ratio is less than 1...facepalm.

Yeah got a point, never been any good in the longer format, been alright in the shorter ones.

[Gowza]

Isn't riyads test bowling average a lot lower due to taking advantage of a weak WI team? Or is that a misconception?

[dark mage]

Originally Posted by Gowza
This is something I go back and forth with, nasir was world class and test class for much longer than riyad was which is why nasir should get a longer leash imo, but riyad just scored runs so I don't think there is a clear cut decision on this despite nasir being in poor form.

I am not a Riyad fan, nut I guess I will have to disagree with Nasir being World Class. I have always had doubts about him facing a strong bowling attack outside the subcontinent and I was proven right. Nasir lacks technique to survive in Tests and against the faster ball. His inflated average came playing in our conditions. Nasir's only good attribute was his confidence and playing well under pressure.

Riyad on the other hand has had a longer career and a pretty decent average which can be improved on as he has what Nasir lacks, and that is technique. What he lacks is guts. Riyad never looked uncomfortable against the faster bowling and he can win us matches as we saw when WI last toured bangladesh. I also remember his century against New Zealand in New Zealand in a totally grass-topped pitch. I don't think Nasir could've done that.

[Gowza]

I'll admit nasir needs to play more tests and perform a bit more in that format but most of his test career has been test class and most of his ODI career has been world class and that's a 41 match career not a small sample size. Riyad's average of 28 in tests is not decent and his ODI average is padded by not outs and falls below 30 if you take out zim matches. Performance is the most important long term factor, not talent. Nasir has performed much better than Riyad.

[dark mage]

Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

[BanCricFan]

Originally Posted by Gowza
28 is good by our lads, horrible way to rate a player, rate him by test standards please and 28 is poor. take out test matches and hom still has a better FC record than riyad.

And on the basis of this little "fact" you want Riyad out and give "a go" to Hom! Wunderschön!

I think you're just arguing here for the sake of it. Had you followed BD cricket from its birth and not jumping on the train midway -so to speak- you would have realized a few things quite organically; amongst them is the fact that you cannot always apply a general law (standard yardstick/international average) to a particular case (Riyad and BD batsmen). Standard yardstick is merely a guide to measure/gauge all sorts of matters with all their relativity. You see, all babies don't grow uniformly (despite the growth chart) as there could be many factors/variables involved. Nor a Turkey fly at the height of an Eagle -technically, both are birds. Nor a Fiat Punto bombs down the motorway at the capable speed of a, say, Venom GT (no, I'm not into cars and don't work for them and certainly don't own one). Although, both have four wheels and a steering wheel. If I haven't put you to sleep already- hopefully, now you will comprehend the futility of comparing the Test average of a Riyad or any BD bats with that of a Don or any other greats. Hence, I don't. One has to learn to temper his optimism/expectation with a dose of pragmatism and reality.

Now, who else -beside the Homie -would you wanna give "a go" against those minnows (Zim)?

[BanCricFan]

Originally Posted by dark mage
Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

Spoke like an insider!

Nasir has huge potential and temperament wise one of the better ones from BD. One of the reasons why he has done well until recent times. But, his all too obvoius technical flaws are catching up with him now, especially, in foreign conditions. Riyad has much better technique but lacks seriously in temperament dept. Hence, the relative failure in his career so far.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
And on the basis of this little "fact" you want Riyad out and give "a go" to Hom! Wunderschön!

I think you're just arguing here for the sake of it. Had you followed BD cricket from its birth and not jumping on the train midway -so to speak- you would have realized a few things quite organically; amongst them is the fact that you cannot always apply a general law (standard yardstick/international average) to a particular case (Riyad and BD batsmen). Standard yardstick is merely a guide to measure/gauge all sorts of matters with all their relativity. You see, all babies don't grow uniformly (despite the growth chart) as there could be many factors/variables involved. Nor a Turkey fly at the height of an Eagle -technically, both are birds. Nor a Fiat Punto bombs down the motorway at the capable speed of a, say, Venom GT (no, I'm not into cars and don't work for them and certainly don't own one). Although, both have four wheels and a steering wheel. If I haven't put you to sleep already- hopefully, now you will comprehend the futility of comparing the Test average of a Riyad or any BD bats with that of a Don or any other greats. Hence, I don't. One has to learn to temper his optimism/expectation with a dose of pragmatism and reality.

Now, who else -beside the Homie -would you wanna give "a go" against those minnows (Zim)?

BD shouldn't have test status if they're happy with batsmen averaging 28, expectations need to be higher. don't compare BD to other test nations? sorry but that is who they are playing if they don't want to be comparable then they shouldn't be in competition with each other.

also riyad's test average of 28 is bad by BD standards not just world standards. tamim averages 36, nasir, 36, mushy 33 (but averaged in the 40s and 50s in recent years), shakib nearly 38, mominul 60+.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by dark mage
Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

riyad's test average of under 20 batting 1-7 from 18 innings (10 matches) supports your point well. also nasir averages 38 in BD, 49 in SL and 58 in zimbabwe, 2 bad matches in WI is exactly that, just 2 bad matches out of 16.

[Murad]

I wish all the players did just enough to be in safe side.