Aussie spinners agree to flick 'doosra'

Eshen · #1 July 27, 2009, 07:14 PM

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...FnqZinBg6c7mKw

SYDNEY — Australia's leading spin bowlers say they are firmly against coaching the controversial 'doosra', with one Test great saying it is an illegal delivery.

The 'doosra', an Urdu term for a ball that turns away from a right-hander, as opposed to a conventional off-spinner which turns towards him, has engendered debate over its legitimacy in world cricket.

Pakistan spinner Saqlain Mushtaq has been credited with introducing the unorthodox finger-spinning delivery and it has been used by, among others, Test cricket's all-time leading wicket-taker Muttiah Muralitharan and India's Harbhajan Singh.

But a gathering of Australia's prominent spin bowlers at a 'spin summit' last month in Brisbane, details of which emerged on Monday, concluded that the doosra cannot be bowled legally and there was no place for it to be taught in Australia.

The verdict had the unanimous agreement of the group including Shane Warne, Stuart MacGill, Jim Higgs, Gavin Robertson, Terry Jenner, Peter Philpott and Ashley Mallett.

Mallett, a former Test off-spinner and now an author, said he believed the doosra could not be delivered by a finger-spinner without it being 'chucked' and was thus against cricket's rules.

"There was unanimous agreement that the off-spinner?s ?other one?, the doosra, should not be coached in Australia," Mallett wrote in the Adelaide Review published Monday.

"I have never seen anyone actually bowl the doosra. It has to be a chuck.

"Until such time as the ICC (world governing body) declares that all manner of chucking is legal in the game of cricket I refuse to coach the doosra. All at the 'Spin Summit' agreed."

In May this year, Pakistani off-spinner Saeed Ajmal's bowling action was cleared by a biomechanic expert after he was reported by the umpires while bowling a doosra during the second one-day international against Australia in Dubai April.

South African off-spinner Johan Botha was also reported for bowling a doosra last May, but his delivery was ruled illegal by the ICC and he was warned against bowling that particular delivery in international cricket.

Muralitharan, Harbhajan and Pakistan's Shoaib Malik have all had their actions cleared by the ICC human movement specialist panel after the legitimacy of their doosras was called into question.

Zeeshan · #2 July 27, 2009, 07:40 PM

For those who cant read english, translation:

?

B-l-a-t-a-n-t R-a-c-i-s-m!

Eshen · #3 July 27, 2009, 07:44 PM

It's not only Aussies who think Doosra is illegal though,

Spin great Bedi blasts ICC over doosra row

http://www.dawn.com/2005/03/28/spt6.htm

BANGALORE, March 27, 2005: India’s spin great Bishen Singh Bedi says that the International Cricket Council (ICC) has not handled the chucking controversy well and has pointed out that the ‘doosra’ from an off-spinner was simply a case of throwing.

“The ‘doosra’ is like an illicit child who has been allowed to grow into a monster,” the former skipper said in television programme. “It is a bigger blow to cricket than match-fixing.”

Stressing that there was a need to hate the crime and not the criminals, he termed Pakistan off-spinner Shoaib Malik, against whom accusations of suspect bowling surfaced recently, “a small mosquito” and called Sri Lankan Muttiah Muralitharan “a monster who has taken 500-plus wickets. Even Shoaib Akhtar is a bigger criminal.”

Mincing no words, he took a swipe at the ICC. “They are the biggest criminals and have not handled the issue in a proper manner. Why are the players not allowed to have a say in anything that they do,” he questioned.

“You cannot catch the culprits who fix matches but the incidents of chucking are happening in front of everyone. It is a disease that will keep resurfacing,” he said referring to Indian off-spinner Harbhajan Singh who was reported for a second time in the Kolkata Test for bowling the wrong one, after being cleared by the ICC just weeks ago.

“Who is to blame for the extra psychological pressure on Harbhajan — the bowler himself. Why is it that no one is pointing fingers at Anil Kumble or for that matter Shane Warne, only because they are okay,” he said. “The whole Indian team is behind him, but they are all backing the wrong horse.”

“Throwing is a creation of the subcontinent. We must own it and shouldn’t try to look for excuses. It is the job of the subcontinent to ensure this habit is arrested, the sooner the better.”

Nafi · #4 July 27, 2009, 07:46 PM

I can bowl a doosra without chucking it, but it nevers lands where I want it to go.

You have almost no control over the ball. I dont practice it anyway, since I bowl seam usually.

Zeeshan · #5 July 27, 2009, 07:50 PM

@ Eshen II

They racist too.

Zeeshan · #6 July 27, 2009, 07:54 PM

Truth is if Murali was a pretty-boy good lookin white fella he wouldn't have to face all these freakin hataz'.

Same can be said of Shoaib "Chad" Malik

**Zunaid** · #7 July 27, 2009, 08:04 PM

I flick my boogers at Bedi.

One World · #8 July 27, 2009, 08:07 PM

I think Bishan Bedi also mentioned something in relationship terms about the other one.
As it was invented by Saqlain, they would not mind to send even Warne to condition camp. Jokes!!

al Furqaan · #9 July 27, 2009, 08:38 PM

i dunno maybe murali has ehlos-danlos syndrome with hypermobile joints and ****, but his doosra looks like the biggest chuck ever.

same will bhajji, but that might be his stock offies as well.

i can bowl a doosra, fairly cleanly, but it might not even be a real doosra. i turn it the other way around, and its different from my leg break...but apparently my friend can read it really well.

Zeeshan · #10 July 27, 2009, 08:48 PM

Soon the cricket purists will probably ban carom ball too.... Murali and Mendis they are pure artists. The whole beauty of cricket lies in the fact that someone brings something unique to the table with their own creativity tpo enhance the art giving variety. KP gets smacked for his two edged attack to both sides; our Razzak had to go through rehabilitation. This is a pure farce.

Why can't they allow players who intuitively looks legit instead of trying to measure their bowling in angles and radians? smh

One World · #11 July 27, 2009, 09:03 PM

^Not always, when Paul Adams revived Chinaman it was not really pretty sight watch him play.

But yes this debate on Doosra is just kept alive by those rejects patronized highly by the Aussies as somehow Srilanka one of the newbies after Pakistan became the best fit to this technique.

IanW · #12 July 27, 2009, 10:11 PM

One World,

Paul Adams had a weird technique, but he wasnt a chucker.

Zeeshan,

I strongly advise you to get off your high horse and look at the cases of chucking in Australia. I'd start with Ian Meckiff, and then have a look at Aaron Bird.

Generally,

The advantage of offspin over legspin is that it is more accurate. The disadvantage is that a legspinner can move the ball both ways.

If offspinners are allowed to legally chuck the ball by 15 degrees, and thereby get the ball to turn both ways with a doosra, then why ever use a legspinner ?

One World · #13 July 28, 2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanW
One World,

Paul Adams had a weird technique, but he wasnt a chucker.
.......
Generally,

The advantage of offspin over legspin is that it is more accurate. The disadvantage is that a legspinner can move the ball both ways.

If offspinners are allowed to legally chuck the ball by 15 degrees, and thereby get the ball to turn both ways with a doosra, then why ever use a legspinner ?

When did I call Paul a chucker. I was pointing to the revival scenario which not always brings in expected result adding salt to injury the misery of watching weirdness.

If Doosra::Chucking to you then I cannot really debate here as we are on the two opposite points on this topic.

But if you are branding someone as an offy or leggy and then saying offy should not be offered to do Doosra then we need to go back and start re-write cricketing archive taking away all the counts of wickets the offies possess.

In other words "Keep It Simple Stupid", if Doosra was accepted when it was first bowled why brand it today? If a leggie has legal deliveries both ways, offie having it causing trouble now. Only cricket in AUS is so academic that they cannot really accept others' innovative perception of the game specially if it is coming from sub-continent except India who never really contributed for anything except IPL.

IanW · #14 July 28, 2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One World

In other words "Keep It Simple Stupid", if Doosra was accepted when it was first bowled why brand it today? If a leggie has legal deliveries both ways, offie having it causing trouble now. Only cricket in AUS is so academic that they cannot really accept others' innovative perception of the game specially if it is coming from sub-continent except India who never really contributed for anything except IPL.

Ahhh, thats the point isnt it ... the doosra never was accepted in many circles. And when certain umpires saw it, they called No Ball. The googly - that was never illegal, only immoral, as it involves the wrist being bent, not the elbow.

The ICC has now amnended the rulebook to allow chucking, as long as the bend does not exceed 15 degrees.

Frankly, I am surprised you would class Bishin Bedi as an Australian. Personally, I think he'd be a fine Aussie (after all, Harold Larwood ended up as one), but me, I'd call him an Indian. Oh, and as far as your racism in saying India never really contributed anything ... even without the obduracy of Gavaskar or the fluidity of Tendulkar, we have Ranji, and for his leg glance, Ranji alone would have been enough.

Cricket is based on several things ; one of these is we bowl the ball, we don't chuck it. If you want to change that, then what we have is no longer cricket.

alibangali · #15 July 28, 2009, 06:04 AM

It will be a farce to make the doosra illegal now just because the aussies and a few crtics think its illegal. if the ICC declared it to be legal then its legal. the real issue is that the aussies dont have any spin talents anymore and really sulking like a kid. Since the time of warne i have not really heard of any other spin superstar from australia.

One World · #16 July 28, 2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanW
Ahhh, thats the point isnt it ... the doosra never was accepted in many circles. And when certain umpires saw it, they called No Ball. The googly - that was never illegal, only immoral, as it involves the wrist being bent, not the elbow.

The ICC has now amnended the rulebook to allow chucking, as long as the bend does not exceed 15 degrees.

Frankly, I am surprised you would class Bishin Bedi as an Australian. Personally, I think he'd be a fine Aussie (after all, Harold Larwood ended up as one), but me, I'd call him an Indian. Oh, and as far as your racism in saying India never really contributed anything ... even without the obduracy of Gavaskar or the fluidity of Tendulkar, we have Ranji, and for his leg glance, Ranji alone would have been enough.

Cricket is based on several things ; one of these is we bowl the ball, we don't chuck it. If you want to change that, then what we have is no longer cricket.

And then there will come Bradman, who would be the future of all kinds of cricket.

IanW · #17 July 28, 2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alibangali
It will be a farce to make the doosra illegal now just because the aussies and a few crtics think its illegal. if the ICC declared it to be legal then its legal. the real issue is that the aussies dont have any spin talents anymore and really sulking like a kid. Since the time of warne i have not really heard of any other spin superstar from australia.

Well, in order.

It's already a farce, and has been for a while.

A few critics includes Bishin Bedi, one of the best offspinners there ever was.

ICC has declared chucking to be legal, as long as you keep it to fifteen degrees.

Yep, that's true. Australia have as many slow left arm and orthodox spin talents as usual (viz : none. Lol Hauritz) and no decent leggies (true about most of the time ... erm, Benaud, Warne and Macgill covers it for decent leggies since O'Reilly. Lol Jim Higgs. Lol Peter Sleep).

And my personal view ... same as Richard Loe. I think Murali is too good a player to lower himself by cheating.

OZGOD · #18 July 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

It's kind of a moot point to be honest. Our spinners can't even bowl an offbreak properly, let alone a doosra, and nobody to teach it.

IanW · #19 July 28, 2009, 11:18 AM

Ozgod,

Head to Newcastle. Murray Bennett was a good part of knocking over the Windies in their pomp.

Akib · #20 July 28, 2009, 12:31 PM

Who cares. As OZGOD said, their spinners can't even bowl basic deliveries properly... They shouldn't come near doorsa anyways.

Surfer · #21 July 29, 2009, 01:17 AM

Classic example of 'sour grapes'. Typical Aussie. And as far as Bedi is concerned, he will say anything to get some media coverage. Just about anything. And for some unexplained reason, he hates Murali. He would readily call everything associated with Muralu illegal.

Eshen · #22 July 29, 2009, 03:30 AM

Ian, Aussies were super pissed when Bosanquet invented googly and took tons of wickets using it. Don't you think the history is repeating itself?

Imteaz · #23 July 29, 2009, 05:16 AM

Nice & Interesting.

Rabz · #24 July 29, 2009, 10:42 AM

My question:

How many beers did the boys had before they decided to flick the doosra?
Or was it just pub talk that got out in the media?

IanW · #25 July 29, 2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eshen
Ian, Aussies were super pissed when Bosanquet invented googly and took tons of wickets using it. Don't you think the history is repeating itself?

Eshen,

No, they werent, and I'd like to see some period evidence to suggest they were upset over the delivery that was not illegal, but merely immoral.

But the key is you use your wrist to do a googly, and your elbow to do a doosra.

Surfer,

So, if they are white and disagree with you, it's racism. If they arent white and disagree with you, it's a personal feud. It's pretty good to have such an all-purpose way to dismiss anyone holding a different opinion.

Bluntly, Bedi doesnt dislike Murali for any reason other than he think's he's a chucker, who cheated his way to the wickets that other bowlers got honestly.

The ICC also agrees he's a chucker, but they amended the rules to make limited chucking, up to 15 degrees, legal.

Rabz,

It's a deeply held opinion by the Australian spin brains trust, and part of the Australian cricketing tradition. Bill Woodfull refused to have Bobyline bowled, and Terry Jenner refuses to teach the offies how to chuck the ball so it spins the other way.