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  #126  
Old September 30, 2019, 11:51 PM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
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BC suddenly got interesting.
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  #127  
Old October 1, 2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Supra-rational is a very fancy word. Let’s keep discussion simple. Either something happened or it did not happen. Either something exist or it does not exist.

.
.
.

I don’t want to bore you with more such stories (and there are plenty more), my point is that “Supra-rational” is a fancy way of saying “Sorry, got no answers to your question?”
Thank God that you did not waste your time any further, because whatever new points/counter argument you think you came up with, which BTW were not new but simply recycled talking points, were already answered in my initial post

I have kept the discussion very simple and admitted from the get go that there are aspects in Islam that cannot be explained by reason or rationality. However, since believers find the complete package to be reasonable and intuitive, they also believe/accept the supra-rational facts as true, even though they do not have rational explanation. If you believe in an all-powerful God, which believers do, supra-rational facts are not an impossibility - even though human minds cannot know or grasp or explain it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
Islam is full of SUPRARATIONAL facts. Whether it is belief in the hereafter, belief in the unseen, belief in Buraq and the night journey, belief in Gog and Magog - these tenets of faith/stories cannot be completely explained by rationality/reason.
+++

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Now lets talk a little about the five points that you presented

.
.
.

Sorry do not have the time tonight to go over all the other points you mentioned in your post.
When I said 'make sense', I did not claim that it make sense to everyone. It does not. That's why I had point 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
2. The scholars of Islam argued that since both reason and revelation are from the same source, if someone is sincere, Islam will appear true to them. The question is: what if someone is sincere but does not find Islam to be true after his research? We leave that affair to God. Our job is to inform, individual sincerity is between God and the individual
+++

More food for thought on supra-rational fact

What is more absurd? Believing in God and supra-rational facts of Islam, or believing that this perfectly fine tuned universe came out of nothing?

Atheists will say: Just because we cannot solve the dilemma of how universe came from nothing or what existed before the big bang, does not mean we will fall for the God of gap as our answer. We take pride in saying we don't know and we will keep doing research - may be in future we will get the answer.

Theists will say: We appreciate your humility and inquisitiveness, but the fact is "why there exists something rather than nothing" is a fundamental philosophical question, which will linger no matter how much scientific research you perform, and you know that. Therefore, your inquisitiveness or humility of not knowing is the real cop out here, making believers' belief in religious supra-rational facts less absurd (in fact a smarter choice) than atheists' perpetual avoidance of a fundamental philosophical question under the guise of continuous research/ intellectual curiosity.
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Last edited by ToBeFair; October 1, 2019 at 01:43 AM..
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  #128  
Old October 1, 2019, 06:11 AM
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Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Supra-rational is a very fancy word. Let’s keep discussion simple. Either something happened or it did not happen. Either something exist or it does not exist. Either the words in Quran/Sahih Hadith is true or it is Untrue. Gog and Magog is mentioned in the Quran , so do they exist or not? IF they exist, where are they now? Very simple question.

Did God split the moon on behalf of Muhammad or not? This would be a massive event in the history of the world, so was there any independent witnesses or not? Is there any evidence of moon splitting or not? Is moon splitting true or not?

Do you believe in Evolution or not? Does Islam believe that humans and apes share a common ancestor? Without going into details of evolutionary biology, it is suffice to say that any suggestion on the contrary only helps explain the reasoning behind large percentage of atheist amongst scientific community.

Did anyone see Muhammad flying on Buraq or not? Was there any independent witnesses or not? What was the date of travel? Surely just witnessing Muhammad’s flight on top of a heavenly creature would remove any doubt of his prophet hood and existence of God, so did millions witness his flight and convert? What exactly happened? Did he dream? Did he hallucinate? Or is this all a big lie?

The funniest Biblical story, which was subsequently plagiarized in Islam, is the story of the Ark (Noah). Simple question, Is it a true story? Was there any geological (scientific) evidence of such a flood? How does all soul get corrupt (including babies)? How can you fit all the animal species which should occupy a volume much greater than the volume of the boat (even miracle cannot explain this)? How do you provide for food? Etc etc.

I don’t want to bore you with more such stories (and there are plenty more), my point is that “Supra-rational” is a fancy way of saying “Sorry, got no answers to your question?”

Now lets talk a little about the five points that you presented

1/Theology of Islam makes sense –

Disagree
Theology of Islam makes absolutely no sense. God created us to worship him. If we do not worship him than that is the mistake of the creator. If I write a code that does not work, than I am to blame.

If we worship him and follow all the commands of God, we will end up in Paradise. According to Quran and Sahih Hadith, we will have rivers of Wine (alcohol) in Heaven. We will also be serviced by virgins to our hearts content. To me heaven, as described in Islam, sounds like a disgusting place. It sounds to me like a place dreamed up by 7th century Arab men.

Ideal heaven for me is the quality time I spend with my family and friends. It is not brothels and rivers of wine and honey.

2/ World view of Islam make sense –

Disagree.
As already discussed earlier, Islam has little to no problem with slavery. While freeing a slave is considered a good deed, however one can have slaves if he so wishes. Sex-slaves or right hand possession is absolutely legal.

Islam also never banned child marriage.

It will not be wrong to suggest that Islam subjugates women.

3 and 4/ Legal system and Islamic moral codes make sense –

Disagree.
Stoning, amputation, decapitation etc cannot be an example of a great judicial system. Not to mention the testimony of men vs women. I can literally write an essay about the flaws in Islamic legal system but I am sure everyone here is aware of the drawbacks.

5/ Purpose of Life
I would somewhat agree with this. Islam and all religion in general, does provide a purpose to keep living. It does provide hope of something better to people with otherwise hopeless existence.


Sorry do not have the time tonight to go over all the other points you mentioned in your post.
100% right. Please preach. I am agnostic by the way, neither theistic or atheistic. Absolutely no dog in the fight. But I love to see a stop to the glamorization of 7th century desert ideas, propagated by 21st century communists. What an odd couple really.
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  #129  
Old October 1, 2019, 06:09 PM
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so called "skeptics" = focusing on the little branches and little minute details and thinking doing so disproves "Islam", which feeds into their confirmation bias which facilitates their disbelief even further, when in reality they are not understanding epistemology or the actual role of science.

"Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence!". I've heard this sooo many times. Sounds innocent on the surface level. Sounds like they are inquisitive. But when you scratch the surface it all falls apart. You give them the "evidence", but they will keep arguing and arguing trying to dispute that evidence till the cow come home. They don't want to accept your evidence, they want to accept either their own evidence, or that "a lack of evidence" means "there is no truth to it". Clearly one needs to study the problem of "induction".

And then you start to realise that these self claimed "skeptics" don't even apply this same amount of skepticism in their own life. Like why not be that level of a skeptic towards your family doctor's qualifications, or even ask evidence for your mother and father actually being your real mother and father. Why not scrutinise the baby photos..

Heck when a science article or journal is published why not scrutinise that either? They will NEVER EVER DO IT. I'm currently studying Imam Ghazali's "Deliverance From Error", and the famous point he makes in regards to all of this is that these guys are exhibiting a clear form of "taqlid". They have blind faith. Simple as that. They have this belief that "science is the only way to Truth" and that "science explains and will tell us everything in the world", almost to the point where they worship the scientists. So when a scientist is good in his field but starts talking gibberish about philosophy and religion, people just thinking "oh yeah he's so smart with his science so his is probably correct about other subjects as well.
Unfortunately that too is irrational and sadly people don't really understand things such as the actual metaphysical assumptions that come along with taking "science is the only way to see the world" approach or understand what the role of science is actually meant i.e. seeing patterns and making observations of the world around us and collecting the data to try form theories around it. However when it comes to religion "evidence evidence evidence". But for everything else in life *silence*.

So really there is something deeper at play. Really they just don't want to believe and they only latch onto things like "I haven't found Gog and Magog on Google Maps so that means religion is false so that means Islam is false so that means God doesn't exist". It's the most irrational of the irrational.

And don't forget the whole idea of "it doesn't play into my secular liberal framework of morality so the morals of Islam can't be true!". Wait hold up a minute. You think God existing and He gave us morals to abide by is absurd, but the world existing by chance and coincidence is all good in the hood and that we literally are governed by random arbitrary rules and laws made our by our 'rational faculty capacities", which too have been formed by chance and coincidences, is not problematic or in the least bit scary? Like please don't push the morality argument cos it looks bad on your part.

"Legal theory in Islam has so many holes in it!" - ironically the same liberal framework we live in being codified of some sorts by John Locke, Edward Gibbon and Edward Pococke, who famously was highly influenced by Muslim legal theory.

"Mahomet [Prophet Muhammad ﷺ] held very sound and sensible views, and made a good job of linking his political system together; and as long as the caliphs who succeeded him preserved the form of his government, that government had the good feature of being one—a unitary government, not split between secular and religious powers."- Jean Jacques Rousseau (The Social Contract).

"To me heaven, as described in Islam, sounds like a disgusting place. It sounds to me like a place dreamed up by 7th century Arab men" - again orientalism repackaged. If only they knew. The world before was backwards and uncivilised. That's why they needed religion cos they didn't know wtf they were doing. Now we are so civilised and amazing and so religion has no importance in our lives. Yea ok buddy don't force me into your oriental views of the world.
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Last edited by BengaliPagol; October 1, 2019 at 07:09 PM..
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  #130  
Old October 1, 2019, 09:51 PM
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Even if you think Atheism is religion, then read Sura Kafirun.

On the other hand, the thread veered away to belief system and personal faith lenience. Faith or belief has nothing to do with realization. Those are hardcore stuff and those who are religious will agree has nothing to do with space time continuum. Whether in Alaska, Mars, Mecca, Venaras, Vatican, Amazon forest or Dhaka - you are supposed to obey what is scripted. Whereas realization is totally depended on life events. Your environment, upbringing, culture, country, politics, war or piece, racial bias, social taboos, education level, communions, fashion, diet, books you read, songs you listen - every minute detail (including religious root!) comes into play. It starts from the build up of initial sense and continues till your last breath and stops there. Faith or belief system is a totally different phenomenon, where most cases it deals with afterlife or rebirth (Punorjonmo) etc.
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  #131  
Old October 1, 2019, 10:07 PM
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It suddenly dawned on me I ma die without getting laid.
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  #132  
Old October 2, 2019, 09:51 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
so called "skeptics" = focusing on the little branches and little minute details and thinking doing so disproves "Islam", which feeds into their confirmation bias which facilitates their disbelief even further, when in reality they are not understanding epistemology or the actual role of science.

"Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence!". I've heard this sooo many times. Sounds innocent on the surface level. Sounds like they are inquisitive. But when you scratch the surface it all falls apart. You give them the "evidence", but they will keep arguing and arguing trying to dispute that evidence till the cow come home. They don't want to accept your evidence, they want to accept either their own evidence, or that "a lack of evidence" means "there is no truth to it". Clearly one needs to study the problem of "induction".

And then you start to realise that these self claimed "skeptics" don't even apply this same amount of skepticism in their own life. Like why not be that level of a skeptic towards your family doctor's qualifications, or even ask evidence for your mother and father actually being your real mother and father. Why not scrutinise the baby photos..

Heck when a science article or journal is published why not scrutinise that either? They will NEVER EVER DO IT. I'm currently studying Imam Ghazali's "Deliverance From Error", and the famous point he makes in regards to all of this is that these guys are exhibiting a clear form of "taqlid". They have blind faith. Simple as that. They have this belief that "science is the only way to Truth" and that "science explains and will tell us everything in the world", almost to the point where they worship the scientists. So when a scientist is good in his field but starts talking gibberish about philosophy and religion, people just thinking "oh yeah he's so smart with his science so his is probably correct about other subjects as well.
Unfortunately that too is irrational and sadly people don't really understand things such as the actual metaphysical assumptions that come along with taking "science is the only way to see the world" approach or understand what the role of science is actually meant i.e. seeing patterns and making observations of the world around us and collecting the data to try form theories around it. However when it comes to religion "evidence evidence evidence". But for everything else in life *silence*.

So really there is something deeper at play. Really they just don't want to believe and they only latch onto things like "I haven't found Gog and Magog on Google Maps so that means religion is false so that means Islam is false so that means God doesn't exist". It's the most irrational of the irrational.

And don't forget the whole idea of "it doesn't play into my secular liberal framework of morality so the morals of Islam can't be true!". Wait hold up a minute. You think God existing and He gave us morals to abide by is absurd, but the world existing by chance and coincidence is all good in the hood and that we literally are governed by random arbitrary rules and laws made our by our 'rational faculty capacities", which too have been formed by chance and coincidences, is not problematic or in the least bit scary? Like please don't push the morality argument cos it looks bad on your part.

"Legal theory in Islam has so many holes in it!" - ironically the same liberal framework we live in being codified of some sorts by John Locke, Edward Gibbon and Edward Pococke, who famously was highly influenced by Muslim legal theory.

"Mahomet [Prophet Muhammad ﷺ] held very sound and sensible views, and made a good job of linking his political system together; and as long as the caliphs who succeeded him preserved the form of his government, that government had the good feature of being one—a unitary government, not split between secular and religious powers."- Jean Jacques Rousseau (The Social Contract).

"To me heaven, as described in Islam, sounds like a disgusting place. It sounds to me like a place dreamed up by 7th century Arab men" - again orientalism repackaged. If only they knew. The world before was backwards and uncivilised. That's why they needed religion cos they didn't know wtf they were doing. Now we are so civilised and amazing and so religion has no importance in our lives. Yea ok buddy don't force me into your oriental views of the world.

Religious people assume that atheists and agnostics see the world as binary. While I cannot speak for all atheist men and women but the ones I encountered are highly practical people. We in general do not doubt or question the positive contributions that religion has made in the past. Neither do we believe that every word written in the old and new testament or the Quran is evil. Absolutely Not.

However, we do question and we will always question anything that makes mockery out of our intellect. We will always question everything that is against all our moral codes and ethics.

Christianity has somewhat evolved to accept its drawbacks but in Islam people are completely unwilling to accept all that is flawed in Quran.

To Muslims, every word in Quran is holy, unbending and without flaw. As soon as someone comes forward and shows the flaws in Quran, the explanation ranges from “little branches, little minute details” (Bengali Pagol), “SurpaRational” (ToBeFair), and the funniest of them all “need to go help a friend right now” (Rifat).

To be really honest, I am not sure what constitutes as minute details? If a husband beats his wife and justifies his act from the Quran, is it still little insignificant details? If a father dies and his properties are forwarded to cousins instead of the daughter, is it just little insignificant details?

Yajuj Majuj is suppose to be these huge group of beings that is believed to exist to this day, how is that insignificant? Muslim’s celebrates and boasts about prophets night journey in Buraq, how is that insignificant?

Have you ever analyzed how Quran came into existence? Surely God could have kept Muhammad alive till the publication of Quran, given the significant nature of the book. Or wait a minute, Muhammads death decades before Quran was published is another insignificant detail?

Finally, try answering the questions instead of making general statements. Yes ,Heaven per Quran and Hadith, is a disgusting place. Only reminds you of a high end brothel, NO thank you.
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  #133  
Old October 2, 2019, 06:51 PM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
so called "skeptics" = focusing on the little branches and little minute details and thinking doing so disproves "Islam", which feeds into their confirmation bias which facilitates their disbelief even further, when in reality they are not understanding epistemology or the actual role of science.

"Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence. Bring me evidence!". I've heard this sooo many times. Sounds innocent on the surface level. Sounds like they are inquisitive. But when you scratch the surface it all falls apart. You give them the "evidence", but they will keep arguing and arguing trying to dispute that evidence till the cow come home. They don't want to accept your evidence, they want to accept either their own evidence, or that "a lack of evidence" means "there is no truth to it". Clearly one needs to study the problem of "induction".

And then you start to realise that these self claimed "skeptics" don't even apply this same amount of skepticism in their own life. Like why not be that level of a skeptic towards your family doctor's qualifications, or even ask evidence for your mother and father actually being your real mother and father. Why not scrutinise the baby photos..

Heck when a science article or journal is published why not scrutinise that either? They will NEVER EVER DO IT. I'm currently studying Imam Ghazali's "Deliverance From Error", and the famous point he makes in regards to all of this is that these guys are exhibiting a clear form of "taqlid". They have blind faith. Simple as that. They have this belief that "science is the only way to Truth" and that "science explains and will tell us everything in the world", almost to the point where they worship the scientists. So when a scientist is good in his field but starts talking gibberish about philosophy and religion, people just thinking "oh yeah he's so smart with his science so his is probably correct about other subjects as well.
Unfortunately that too is irrational and sadly people don't really understand things such as the actual metaphysical assumptions that come along with taking "science is the only way to see the world" approach or understand what the role of science is actually meant i.e. seeing patterns and making observations of the world around us and collecting the data to try form theories around it. However when it comes to religion "evidence evidence evidence". But for everything else in life *silence*.

So really there is something deeper at play. Really they just don't want to believe and they only latch onto things like "I haven't found Gog and Magog on Google Maps so that means religion is false so that means Islam is false so that means God doesn't exist". It's the most irrational of the irrational.

And don't forget the whole idea of "it doesn't play into my secular liberal framework of morality so the morals of Islam can't be true!". Wait hold up a minute. You think God existing and He gave us morals to abide by is absurd, but the world existing by chance and coincidence is all good in the hood and that we literally are governed by random arbitrary rules and laws made our by our 'rational faculty capacities", which too have been formed by chance and coincidences, is not problematic or in the least bit scary? Like please don't push the morality argument cos it looks bad on your part.

"Legal theory in Islam has so many holes in it!" - ironically the same liberal framework we live in being codified of some sorts by John Locke, Edward Gibbon and Edward Pococke, who famously was highly influenced by Muslim legal theory.

"Mahomet [Prophet Muhammad ﷺ] held very sound and sensible views, and made a good job of linking his political system together; and as long as the caliphs who succeeded him preserved the form of his government, that government had the good feature of being one—a unitary government, not split between secular and religious powers."- Jean Jacques Rousseau (The Social Contract).

"To me heaven, as described in Islam, sounds like a disgusting place. It sounds to me like a place dreamed up by 7th century Arab men" - again orientalism repackaged. If only they knew. The world before was backwards and uncivilised. That's why they needed religion cos they didn't know wtf they were doing. Now we are so civilised and amazing and so religion has no importance in our lives. Yea ok buddy don't force me into your oriental views of the world.
This...
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  #134  
Old October 2, 2019, 07:44 PM
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Cancel my subscription to the resurrection...

Thank you, come again.
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  #135  
Old October 2, 2019, 08:22 PM
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Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Religious people assume that atheists and agnostics see the world as binary. While I cannot speak for all atheist men and women but the ones I encountered are highly practical people. We in general do not doubt or question the positive contributions that religion has made in the past. Neither do we believe that every word written in the old and new testament or the Quran is evil. Absolutely Not.

However, we do question and we will always question anything that makes mockery out of our intellect. We will always question everything that is against all our moral codes and ethics.

Christianity has somewhat evolved to accept its drawbacks but in Islam people are completely unwilling to accept all that is flawed in Quran.

To Muslims, every word in Quran is holy, unbending and without flaw. As soon as someone comes forward and shows the flaws in Quran, the explanation ranges from “little branches, little minute details” (Bengali Pagol), “SurpaRational” (ToBeFair), and the funniest of them all “need to go help a friend right now” (Rifat).

To be really honest, I am not sure what constitutes as minute details? If a husband beats his wife and justifies his act from the Quran, is it still little insignificant details? If a father dies and his properties are forwarded to cousins instead of the daughter, is it just little insignificant details?

Yajuj Majuj is suppose to be these huge group of beings that is believed to exist to this day, how is that insignificant? Muslim’s celebrates and boasts about prophets night journey in Buraq, how is that insignificant?

Have you ever analyzed how Quran came into existence? Surely God could have kept Muhammad alive till the publication of Quran, given the significant nature of the book. Or wait a minute, Muhammads death decades before Quran was published is another insignificant detail?

Finally, try answering the questions instead of making general statements. Yes ,Heaven per Quran and Hadith, is a disgusting place. Only reminds you of a high end brothel, NO thank you.
Superb. Certainly it falls apart when analyzed historically. But people have a right to believe as well. I feel the discussion has turned into atheism vs Islam.I think we should come full circle and tie it back to what prompted all this, the casinos in Bd.

I am 100% for legalization. It cannot be suppressed. If the Cooran had vouched for it, Muslim majority Bd would take to the streets to demand casinos being built. As incredible as that sounds, that's how it is with all book religions. All book or nothing. Believing something is fine, but turning it into a whole political thing is a big no no for me.
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  #136  
Old October 2, 2019, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingara
Is Herewego = Zeeshan ?
Yes. Einstein. Please collect your Nobel Prize, pass Go and check into a rehab.
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  #137  
Old October 2, 2019, 10:45 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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I think TBFair landed a good blow with his long post. You cannot possibly disagree with any of his issues no matter what your religious/moral background is.

I appreciate the progressive-liberal spirit of HWG but I think his punches are landing haphazard.
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  #138  
Old October 2, 2019, 10:46 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Also what I don't get... why are Muslims so easy to get riled up. LMAO!! They are like those snowflake Dembabies.
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  #139  
Old October 3, 2019, 03:33 AM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
I think TBFair landed a good blow with his long post. You cannot possibly disagree with any of his issues no matter what your religious/moral background is.

I appreciate the progressive-liberal spirit of HWG but I think his punches are landing haphazard.
very well summarised. I agree.
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  #140  
Old October 3, 2019, 06:00 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Ideal heaven for me is the quality time I spend with my family and friends. It is not brothels and rivers of wine and honey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Finally, try answering the questions instead of making general statements. Yes ,Heaven per Quran and Hadith, is a disgusting place. Only reminds you of a high end brothel, NO thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
It suddenly dawned on me I ma die without getting laid.
Oops, Zeeshan has inadvertently exposed a common self contradiction

Z expressed fear of dying without getting what men desire , and yet when God presents a similar vision for heaven , it is disparaged and belittled Contradictory, isn't it?

BTW, a primary activity in God's heaven will be socializing with friends, and socializing in Heaven will be unlike the socializing in this world, because in Heaven, God shall remove spite, tension, bitterness, and friction that now exist between souls in this world

Quote:
“Truly, the Muttaqoon (the pious) will be amidst Gardens and water-springs (Paradise).
(It will be said to them): ‘Enter therein (Paradise), in peace and security.’
And We shall remove from their breasts any deep feeling of bitterness (that they may have). (So they will be like) brothers facing each other on thrones.
No sense of fatigue shall touch them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave it”
[al-Hijr 15:45-47]
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Self-respect is the fruit of discipline; the sense of dignity grows with the ability to say no to oneself- AJH| Don’t disrespect your life by living aimlessly – set goals and work hard to attain them.
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  #141  
Old October 3, 2019, 10:08 AM
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ahnaf ahnaf is offline
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You guys just never learn. Do you?
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  #142  
Old October 3, 2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
You guys just never learn. Do you?
Question could be valid, if the thread was about education other than realization.
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  #143  
Old October 3, 2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
Question could be valid, if the thread was about education other than realization.
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  #144  
Old October 3, 2019, 01:46 PM
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aklemalp aklemalp is offline
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This thread is poppin yo!
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  #145  
Old October 3, 2019, 05:00 PM
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A question to those who ascribe to 'scienticism', do you also ask for "evidence evidence evidence" on questions pertaining to things such as "does reality exist?", "do I exist?", "did the past exist?", questions that in nature need to be first principles?
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  #146  
Old October 3, 2019, 10:57 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Oh! by the way..... I haven't forgotten our discussion earlier:


https://www.judaism-islam.com/questi...e-song-of-god/

Quote:

The Jews consider Uzair a very pious person. And according to the Jewish Encyclopedia the title of son of God is used for pious people. Here is an extract rrom the encyclopedia

the title of son of God is attributed by the Jews “to any one whose piety has placed him in a filial relation to God (see Wisdom ii. 13, 16, 18; v. 5, where “the sons of God” are identical with “the saints”; comp. Ecclus. [Sirach] iv. 10). It is through such personal relations that the individual becomes conscious of God’s fatherhood.”

Source:

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13912-son-of-god
Qur'an(The original unadulerated speech of Allah) has no errors or contradictions in it and I will stand by that statement and I consider it a badge of honor and pride for getting mocked or ridiculed for it
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  #147  
Old October 3, 2019, 11:00 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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I can provide 400+ page explanations for the Qur'an. The problem is people who chose not to believe already made up their mind even if the truth was staring at them in their face in their graves. what kind of a fool believes that this life is a joke and everything was created without any purpose whatsoever???
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  #148  
Old October 4, 2019, 05:25 AM
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Someone who decides not to affiliate oneself to one of the leading religions does not necessarily has to turn into a fool. One can still be able to find a concrete answer for purpose in nature no matter how absurd it may seem to another following a different school of purpose.
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  #149  
Old October 4, 2019, 09:51 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
A question to those who ascribe to 'scienticism', do you also ask for "evidence evidence evidence" on questions pertaining to things such as "does reality exist?", "do I exist?", "did the past exist?", questions that in nature need to be first principles?
This is a powerful point.

Even if God shows himself, atheist may still choose to not believe and dismiss Him saying it is a spaghetti monster, or a powerful alien, or delusion/hallucination of his own mind.

If seeing cannot constitute evidence, what constitutes evidence?

When it comes to God, intuition and deductive reasoning are dismissed as source of knowledge or evidence, but science itself is based on intuition and deductive reasoning.

There is no way to prove that we exist. Whatever we are experiencing could be simulations in our brain controlled by aliens. However, intuition tells us that we exist and our experience is real. It is a basic belief and everything else is built around this.

Similarly, God is a basic belief for everything else to make sense. I am not saying you cannot live a good life if you are an atheist or an agnostic, but a at a fundamental level, morality, purpose of existence, consciousness, origin of universe and its temporal nature cannot be explained without God.
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Self-respect is the fruit of discipline; the sense of dignity grows with the ability to say no to oneself- AJH| Don’t disrespect your life by living aimlessly – set goals and work hard to attain them.
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  #150  
Old October 4, 2019, 05:27 PM
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^I can see how your mind works and why did you put morality in the mix. I was trying very hard to keep up with your analysis but mention of morality actually made me say something. If you are corelating morality with chastity or asceticism (what I think you are) then that is a big problem. So, a law abiding citizen who practice safe sex and does not follow any major religion would be immoral by that weird definition.
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