facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Miscellaneous > Forget Cricket

Forget Cricket Talk about anything [within Board Rules, of course :) ]

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old September 26, 2019, 06:23 PM
Roey Haque's Avatar
Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 26, 2012
Favorite Player: Shakib Al Hassan
Posts: 5,999

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
What is the image of Bangladesh?
If building Casino's would cause hunger and famine (which is how your statement sounds like) then Vegas would be Somalia/South Sudan now.

On the contrary as "Roman" pointed, Casino's would bring revenue to the government, would generate employment and tourism opportunity.

Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's are desperate to emulate the Arabs(muslims). Funny thing is that while Emirates and Etihad's of this world would gladly serve alcohol in their flight, Biman chose to be a dry airlines. We are only harming our country and going backward by forcing people to conform to standards devised by the 7th century arabs. The world has moved on since then, we decide to stay stagnant (infact move backwards)
All outstanding points of course. I just don't want them housed in soccer clubs. Too often, sports takes a back seat in Bd for ALL other kinds of activities, I hate that. If product A(soccer) is financed by product B(casino), then there is no incentive to improve product A. What's the point? In fact, I am quite surprised the casino bosses were so generous to share their money with the players. That tells me, that they were simply rolling in so much cash, that they didn't know what to do with it. And if that is indeed the case, absolutely it must be taxable.
__________________
#PrivatizeBCB
#PrivatizeBFF
The end of Rahim will mark a new great beginning for the complacency free Bangladesh!
Reply With Quote

  #102  
Old September 28, 2019, 01:23 PM
Rifat's Avatar
Rifat Rifat is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Favorite Player: Abu Jayed Rahi
Posts: 15,515

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
What is the image of Bangladesh?
If building Casino's would cause hunger and famine (which is how your statement sounds like) then Vegas would be Somalia/South Sudan now.

On the contrary as "Roman" pointed, Casino's would bring revenue to the government, would generate employment and tourism opportunity.

Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's are desperate to emulate the Arabs(muslims). Funny thing is that while Emirates and Etihad's of this world would gladly serve alcohol in their flight, Biman chose to be a dry airlines. We are only harming our country and going backward by forcing people to conform to standards devised by the 7th century arabs. The world has moved on since then, we decide to stay stagnant (infact move backwards)


Quote:
Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's are desperate to emulate the Arabs(muslims).

This is a gross overgeneralization. only around 20% of the world's Muslims are Arabs by ethnicity. If serving Alcohol in airplane flights is the pinnacle of Human civilization advancement and progress, I genuinely question your judgement(pun intended).


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ne/1082443002/
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old September 28, 2019, 03:00 PM
Shingara's Avatar
Shingara Shingara is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: March 6, 2016
Location: USAF AWACS
Favorite Player: Pilot
Posts: 1,987

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
What is the image of Bangladesh?
Cleaners and sromiks in Middle East. That's what we are and that's how the world sees us.
We are not India, so don't think of yourself as an Indian who can throw money around.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old September 28, 2019, 04:13 PM
Rifat's Avatar
Rifat Rifat is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Favorite Player: Abu Jayed Rahi
Posts: 15,515

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingara
Cleaners and sromiks in Middle East. That's what we are and that's how the world sees us.
We are not India, so don't think of yourself as an Indian who can throw money around.
There is nothing dishonorable about having a reputation of earning a hard day's worth of work...
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old September 28, 2019, 07:32 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 7, 2006
Posts: 2,376

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
This is a gross overgeneralization. only around 20% of the world's Muslims are Arabs by ethnicity. If serving Alcohol in airplane flights is the pinnacle of Human civilization advancement and progress, I genuinely question your judgement(pun intended).


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ne/1082443002/
Let me start by giving you an example of gross generalization straight from the Quran.
Quran 9:30
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?


I haven't come across a single jew that says "Ezra is the son of God". Not even 0.01 % Jews probably believes that. So this is just a very small mistake in Quran (and there are plenty if you care to analyze it without any bias)

Anyways So, instead of trying to understand the general message I was trying to convey, you decided to focus your criticism based on a sentence taken out of context (I am talking about alcohol in airlines).

The reason, Hindus find Cow Urine sacred while muslims find Camel urine "sacred/beneficial to health" (as per sahih hadith) is because of the region the religion is derived. If Muhammad was born in the highlands of Scotland, I am sure he would have found Sheep urine equally beneficial instead of Camel. So while 20 percent of the muslims might be arabs but all practicing muslims are trying to emulate the arab way of life of the 7th century.

Not sure how much religion has contributed to the progress of human civilization, however I am plenty sure that they have been a constant source of impediment to the progress.

Sticking to the topic of airlines, when an airline experiences any faulty design, each airline manufacturer to back to the drawing board to develop ways to correct those designs.
If it were upto religious people, they probably would have asked the passengers to read "Sura Nas" or Falak a several thousand times instead of correcting the engineering flaw.

Religion does not work. I have seen people (from all religion) mention how much peace they found through their prayers. The honest truth is that meditation is just as helpful. You can believe in your superpowerful God, but if you carefully analyze the text of the holy books, you will find numerous flaws.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old September 28, 2019, 07:36 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 7, 2006
Posts: 2,376

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
All outstanding points of course. I just don't want them housed in soccer clubs. Too often, sports takes a back seat in Bd for ALL other kinds of activities, I hate that. If product A(soccer) is financed by product B(casino), then there is no incentive to improve product A. What's the point? In fact, I am quite surprised the casino bosses were so generous to share their money with the players. That tells me, that they were simply rolling in so much cash, that they didn't know what to do with it. And if that is indeed the case, absolutely it must be taxable.

Agreed.

Honestly, their main headache is always "how to turn their black money white". They actually (unsurprisingly) make so much money through gambling. House always wins.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old September 29, 2019, 03:31 AM
BengaliPagol's Avatar
BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Meherpur, Kushtia
Favorite Player: Imrul "The Don" Kayes
Posts: 7,582

It's ideologies that looks to relegate religion to the private sphere, and also paint religion in a way where it is "backward", that are the most dangerous. It's orientalism repackaged. If only they knew.

I also love when random jodu modu folks suddenly become Quran and hadith scholars. I always love a good laugh.
__________________
Boys In The Cave - Reviving Islamic Intellectual Discourse. Check out the links below. boysinthecave.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/boysinthecave
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old September 29, 2019, 06:13 AM
Shingara's Avatar
Shingara Shingara is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: March 6, 2016
Location: USAF AWACS
Favorite Player: Pilot
Posts: 1,987

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
There is nothing dishonorable about having a reputation of earning a hard day's worth of work...
It's not dishonorable.
What I am trying to say is our Bangladeshi sromiks koshtey taka orjon korey Middle Eastey ar shei taka deshey pathay. Eita diye desher unnoti hochey i.e. our economy.

Meanwhile, kisu public deshey boshey koti koti taka jua kheley uray. WTF?
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old September 29, 2019, 07:48 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 7, 2006
Posts: 2,376

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
It's ideologies that looks to relegate religion to the private sphere, and also paint religion in a way where it is "backward", that are the most dangerous. It's orientalism repackaged. If only they knew.

I also love when random jodu modu folks suddenly become Quran and hadith scholars. I always love a good laugh.
Classic case of ad hominem fallacy. I am sure galileo galilei was another "jodu modu kodu" to criticize the bible and for believing in a heliocentric solar system.

Here is another fact for you
If all the Atheists & Agnostics left America, they'd lose 93% of The National Academy of Sciences & less than 1% of the prison population.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old September 29, 2019, 03:35 PM
BengaliPagol's Avatar
BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Meherpur, Kushtia
Favorite Player: Imrul "The Don" Kayes
Posts: 7,582

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Classic case of ad hominem fallacy. I am sure galileo galilei was another "jodu modu kodu" to criticize the bible and for believing in a heliocentric solar system.

Here is another fact for you
If all the Atheists & Agnostics left America, they'd lose 93% of The National Academy of Sciences & less than 1% of the prison population.
Classic case of fallacy from equivocation. I'm talking about quran and hadith. You are now randomly bringing up the bible.

Also another classic idea of "correlation equates to causation". You are under an assumption that beliefs equate to knowledge or "how smart you are". Are you are trying to imply is that "if you are an atheist you are more intelligent and truth seeker and smarter than religious folk"?

You are only living in a certain day and age and you are coming to some big conclusions. But a simple study of history shows that many religious nations were the 'intellectuals' of their time.

I'd be making the case that for a nation to be 'intellectuals' it is tied to the idea if the state is powerful or not. The Islamic 'Translation Movement' is evidence of this. It has nothing to do with one's beliefs. Even the Queen's daughter was sent to Islamic Spain to study in the institutions.

In this modern day The West is stable, whereas there is instability in the East. Muslims are a minority in the West. So how does "If all the Atheists & Agnostics left America, they'd lose 93% of The National Academy of Sciences & less than 1% of the prison population." mean anything lol. Like what are you trying to prove? That religious folk are dumb? That's just such a shallow way to think and read the world that we live in today.

It's exactly the same as thinking "majority of blacks occupy jail systems, therefore blacks are inherently troublemakers". Like why would you think like that.

Some scholars say Spinoza's "God' was taken from the Islamic tradition's "God' in the sense that 'God's Attributes' manifest in creation. Rene Descartes clearly took from Ghazali. St Thomas Aquinas also borrowed from Ghazali. The Islamic world set things up in a way where it kicked off the Renaissance Period. al-Khwārizmī and Ibn al-Haytham are monumental people in history.

It's really sad when people go out of their way to really prove that "religion is backward". That in itself is a dangerous ideology. It tries to paint others as almost barbaric. It assumes that everyone lives on an even playing field, where opportunities and sociopolitical realities are consistent throughout the whole world. As I stated before it is orientalism repackaged.
__________________
Boys In The Cave - Reviving Islamic Intellectual Discourse. Check out the links below. boysinthecave.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/boysinthecave
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old September 29, 2019, 04:20 PM
Rifat's Avatar
Rifat Rifat is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Favorite Player: Abu Jayed Rahi
Posts: 15,515

Al-Khawarizmi : Father of Algorithms.
Ibn al Haythem: Father of Optics.

The World's first Established University was set up by a Muslim women in Fez, Morocco.

It was Muslims who set up the world's first universities. your Graduation gown at Yale/Harvard/Oxford/XYZ. it resembles a thowb(An arab looking gown because it was "The west" trying to emulate "The Muslims"...)
...
...
...


The First verses revealed to Prophet Mohammad (SallALlahu A'laihe wasallam) was "IQRA!"... Read/Recite/Reflect in the name of your Lord, who created you.....He taught you that which you didn't know. and now we use the same logic and same reasoning and the brain to disobey him...How ungrateful are we subhanAllah!....


I am not going to comment on the Qur'an because that is not my place but i do know this much:


Qur'an: There is no contradiction or crookedness or any Error in it. The Lord, the creator of the Heavens and the earth says it it has to be true, there is no doubt about it.... and I am not an ungrateful slave...I have a lot more to write on this but I need to go help a friend right now(A better use of my time ) so please bear with me...
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old September 29, 2019, 04:26 PM
BengaliPagol's Avatar
BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Meherpur, Kushtia
Favorite Player: Imrul "The Don" Kayes
Posts: 7,582

If you actually speak to proper atheist academics in university, they themselves don't even perpetuate the nonsense of "religious folks are dumb and backward". In fact they are vehemently against such rhetoric, thought and ideas.

I'm actually acquaintances with such people through the podcast that I run and also through the numerous atheist debates that I attend.

This rhetoric of "religious people are dumb" stems from militant atheist propaganda in pop culture, fueled by specific people such as Richard Dawkins and his ilk.

But funnily enough even atheists in academia call Richard Dawkins "a religious fundamentalist" lol.
__________________
Boys In The Cave - Reviving Islamic Intellectual Discourse. Check out the links below. boysinthecave.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/boysinthecave
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old September 29, 2019, 05:36 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 7, 2006
Posts: 2,376

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Classic case of fallacy from equivocation. I'm talking about quran and hadith. You are now randomly bringing up the bible.

Also another classic idea of "correlation equates to causation". You are under an assumption that beliefs equate to knowledge or "how smart you are". Are you are trying to imply is that "if you are an atheist you are more intelligent and truth seeker and smarter than religious folk"?

You are only living in a certain day and age and you are coming to some big conclusions. But a simple study of history shows that many religious nations were the 'intellectuals' of their time.

I'd be making the case that for a nation to be 'intellectuals' it is tied to the idea if the state is powerful or not. The Islamic 'Translation Movement' is evidence of this. It has nothing to do with one's beliefs. Even the Queen's daughter was sent to Islamic Spain to study in the institutions.

In this modern day The West is stable, whereas there is instability in the East. Muslims are a minority in the West. So how does "If all the Atheists & Agnostics left America, they'd lose 93% of The National Academy of Sciences & less than 1% of the prison population." mean anything lol. Like what are you trying to prove? That religious folk are dumb? That's just such a shallow way to think and read the world that we live in today.

It's exactly the same as thinking "majority of blacks occupy jail systems, therefore blacks are inherently troublemakers". Like why would you think like that.

Some scholars say Spinoza's "God' was taken from the Islamic tradition's "God' in the sense that 'God's Attributes' manifest in creation. Rene Descartes clearly took from Ghazali. St Thomas Aquinas also borrowed from Ghazali. The Islamic world set things up in a way where it kicked off the Renaissance Period. al-Khwārizmī and Ibn al-Haytham are monumental people in history.

It's really sad when people go out of their way to really prove that "religion is backward". That in itself is a dangerous ideology. It tries to paint others as almost barbaric. It assumes that everyone lives on an even playing field, where opportunities and sociopolitical realities are consistent throughout the whole world. As I stated before it is orientalism repackaged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
If you actually speak to proper atheist academics in university, they themselves don't even perpetuate the nonsense of "religious folks are dumb and backward". In fact they are vehemently against such rhetoric, thought and ideas.

I'm actually acquaintances with such people through the podcast that I run and also through the numerous atheist debates that I attend.

This rhetoric of "religious people are dumb" stems from militant atheist propaganda in pop culture, fueled by specific people such as Richard Dawkins and his ilk.

But funnily enough even atheists in academia call Richard Dawkins "a religious fundamentalist" lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
Al-Khawarizmi : Father of Algorithms.
Ibn al Haythem: Father of Optics.

The World's first Established University was set up by a Muslim women in Fez, Morocco.

It was Muslims who set up the world's first universities. your Graduation gown at Yale/Harvard/Oxford/XYZ. it resembles a thowb(An arab looking gown because it was "The west" trying to emulate "The Muslims"...)
...
...
...


The First verses revealed to Prophet Mohammad (SallALlahu A'laihe wasallam) was "IQRA!"... Read/Recite/Reflect in the name of your Lord, who created you.....He taught you that which you didn't know. and now we use the same logic and same reasoning and the brain to disobey him...How ungrateful are we subhanAllah!....


I am not going to comment on the Qur'an because that is not my place but i do know this much:


Qur'an: There is no contradiction or crookedness or any Error in it. The Lord, the creator of the Heavens and the earth says it it has to be true, there is no doubt about it.... and I am not an ungrateful slave...I have a lot more to write on this but I need to go help a friend right now(A better use of my time ) so please bear with me...



I understand that you like to make a distinction between christianity and Islam. However, for a rational person, it makes no difference if it is a Flying Raindeer used by Santa Claus or a Flying donkey (Buraq) used by Muhammad. Both are rightly interpreted as works of fiction. I believe it was Stephen Hawkins that said “One can’t prove that God doesn’t exist just like one cannot prove that superman doesn’t exist. But science makes God unnecessary”

We can both agree that scientists have mapped every inch of land in this world, now I would like you to show me on a map where is Gog and Magog (or Yazuz Mazuz since you only want to talk about Quran)? I bet you will not be able to. I can make a whole list of such fantastical claims made throughout Islam which has no basis in rationality.

Knowledge cannot be equated with belief; however one can definitely argue that the sane and rational will be able to make a clear distinction between facts and fiction if aided with sufficient evidence. And most would agree that there is no evidence for God.

I do NOT think a person who believes in religion is dumb. However I strongly believe that the particular religious person is most certainly born into that religion. He most certainly believes that his God is the only true God and all other God’s and religion (there are thousands) are false. That person believes he is truly blessed. AND If I bet that YOU fall in this category, I have more than 99.99% probability of being right. So tell me Am I right?

As a child our brains are wired to trust our parents. As a child you are warned “Do not touch hot surface”, “do not jump in that lake”, “do not eat that rotten food” oh and “believe in God”. While the first three suggestion is totally valid, the last one is not. However when the child is bombarded with the idea of God along with all other valid information, he is naturally inclined to believe in God himself.

Now if a child grows up not being bombarded with the idea of a creator, and only finds out about religion after he reaches a certain age, do you think he would read the gloriously vague Koran and convert to Islam?

Again, please do not think that since I am mentioning Quran/Islam, I have an agenda against one particular religion. The same arguments are true for all major religions.

I do not understand the term “Militant Atheist”? Would you care to explain? How are they militant? Does writing and arguing against the idea of God make me a militant atheist?

Am I a militant atheist if I disagree with the Islamic teaching that it is halal to “Beat your wife”but haram to “eat pork”. OR "pre-marital sex" is haram but "sex-slaves" are halal? Or stoning/decapitation/lashing is a legitimate form for punishment and not inhumane?

Here is what I think. I Think that when a person starts using personal attacks instead of arguing the content of the debate, he truly lost his argument (or he has no argument against it).

Finally please do not call “Atheism” a religion. "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old September 30, 2019, 02:30 AM
ToBeFair's Avatar
ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 8, 2018
Posts: 2,702

I believe people are conflating few issues here:


1. Islam is full of SUPRARATIONAL facts. Whether it is belief in the hereafter, belief in the unseen, belief in Buraq and the night journey, belief in Gog and Magog - these tenets of faith/stories cannot be completely explained by rationality/reason. However, those who believe in Islam by choice, they believe in it because (1) the theology of Islam makes sense – they find it to be the most coherent (2) the world view of Islam makes sense (3) the legal system of Islam makes sense – they find to be a just system (4) Islamic moral code makes sense – it provides a clear distinction between right and wrong. Together, they answer the most fundamental questions of life: the purpose of life, where we came from, where we are going. When Islamic theology, world view, legal system, and moral codes make sense holistically, we find it too overwhelming to reject the veracity of prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (S). Rationally it is not possible for a random person in the middle a desert to come up with such a functioning system, unless he is a prophet of God. Therefore, Muslims accept the complete package, which includes suprarational facts. By mentioning a random suprarational fact or an incident from the life of Prophet that does not make sense per current societal standards, if you think you have got a gotcha, you will be disappointed, because the believers in Islam do not believe in Islam because of those secondary or tertiary suprarational facts in the first place, but rather, they believe in it because they find the overall religion to be reasonable and intuitive.

2. The scholars of Islam argued that since both reason and revelation are from the same source, if someone is sincere, Islam will appear true to them. The question is: what if someone is sincere but does not find Islam to be true after his research? We leave that affair to God. Our job is to inform, individual sincerity is between God and the individual.

3. Science and religion have different jobs. Science is primarily concerned about observing and explaining how things work. It is about finding causal relations. Religion is concerned about purpose of life, metaphysics, theology, legal system, moral codes, absolute truth etc. Science and religion may have some overlapping, but in general, they are mutually exclusive. This is also clear from the narration where the Prophet (S) himself acknowledged that he was the most knowledgeable about the affairs of religion but not of this world.

4. Has religion contributed towards the advancement of human civilization? Definitely. Arabs in the sixth century were nothing in the world stage, but Islam was the catalyst to bring out a dominant civilization out of them, who later contributed to other branches of knowledge for centuries. It is extremely myopic to say that only science advanced human civilization but other forms/branches of knowledge like religion had no role whatsoever.

5. Scientific advancement or military might or economic strength or political power does not prove or disprove the validity of a religion.

6. Islam never proposes spiritual solution to the problems alone – it recommends both practical and spiritual approach. A man wanted to leave his camel untied to prove his trust on God, but the Prophet asked him to tie his camel first and then to put his trust on God. The life of prophet also debunks this dishonestly perpetrated myth that Islam discourages practical solutions – from his migration to Medina to all the wars he led, every event was planned to the minute details well ahead. It is not the way of God that He gives things to his creation without them resorting to the means He created. Simultaneously, resorting to means also does not mean you abandon seeking spiritual help. Muslims are asked to do both.

7. It is indeed gross generalization to say that Muslims emulate Arabs. This is not what Islam is about. If it was, Islam wouldn’t have faced the resistance it faced in its early years. However, did the Prophet legislate few Arab traditions to be part of Islam? The answer is yes. For example, during his time, the blood money for accidental manslaughter was 100 camels, and the Prophet (S) later legislated it to be the blood money in Islamic sharia. That is because the Prophet (S) was given the authority to legislate in certain aspects.

8. Finally, let us address the question of why casino is widespread in Bangladesh and how to tackle it. The liberal progressive argument is as long as something does not harm others, make it legal and regulate it with taxation. Liberal progressivism argues that making something illegal does not deter people from doing it, it only allows undercover business to flourish.

In an ideal Islamic state, of course a vice and everything leading to it will be illegal.

In Bangladesh, casino is illegal but why it is not working? It is not working, according to my observation, is because we are a country/society who are nominally Muslim, not holistically. We have accepted part of Islam that is convenient, but left out whatever is not convenient. Example: Corruption and interest based banking system is OK but casino is not OK. I can point out many other contradictions, but the bottom line is, when you pick and choose in Islam, it does not work. You have to accept it completely, be at individual level or state level, or else, you will veer into complete degeneration. Islam is simple and yet overwhelming – as our pious predecessors used to say – just thinking and planning about committing a sin will take out your sweetness of faith, let alone committing it. If such is the case, if you allow certain prohibitions but ban other prohibitions, can you expect people to abide by of the latter? The answer is NO.

Can vice be completely uprooted or be made absent in an Islamic state? The answer is no. This world is not meant to be perfect. However, in an ideal Islamic state it can be reduced to an extent where it will be exception but not the norm.

Can liberal progressivism or self-legislation solve all the problems and make humanity not in need of religion? The answer is no. The classic example is money in politics in USA and existing healthcare issue. Laws have been written such that it is OK for people to die if they cannot afford healthcare but it not OK to touch the profits of insurance companies. It is legal. Self-regulation/legislation cannot fight such perverseness. Even if Medicare for all is legislated today, there is no guarantee that it will not be repealed tomorrow. At the heart of the matter is it is a moral issue – but without an external moral agent and a deterministic metaphysical accountability, WHY I SHOULD BE GOOD IF I CAN GET AWAY cannot be answered, thus, the problem will remain.
__________________
Self-respect is the fruit of discipline; the sense of dignity grows with the ability to say no to oneself- AJH| Don’t disrespect your life by living aimlessly – set goals and work hard to attain them.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old September 30, 2019, 07:18 AM
epitaph's Avatar
epitaph epitaph is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Posts: 1,394

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair

4. Has religion contributed towards the advancement of human civilization? Definitely. Arabs in the sixth century were nothing in the world stage, but Islam was the catalyst to bring out a dominant civilization out of them, who later contributed to other branches of knowledge for centuries. It is extremely myopic to say that only science advanced human civilization but other forms/branches of knowledge like religion had no role whatsoever.
https://youtu.be/WZCuF733p88
__________________
"No problem bowling, but speaking and batting, problem." - The Fizz
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old September 30, 2019, 07:58 AM
Shingara's Avatar
Shingara Shingara is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: March 6, 2016
Location: USAF AWACS
Favorite Player: Pilot
Posts: 1,987

Can we get back to the topic of casinos in BD ?
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old September 30, 2019, 10:08 AM
Roey Haque's Avatar
Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 26, 2012
Favorite Player: Shakib Al Hassan
Posts: 5,999

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
I understand that you like to make a distinction between christianity and Islam. However, for a rational person, it makes no difference if it is a Flying Raindeer used by Santa Claus or a Flying donkey (Buraq) used by Muhammad. Both are rightly interpreted as works of fiction. I believe it was Stephen Hawkins that said “One can’t prove that God doesn’t exist just like one cannot prove that superman doesn’t exist. But science makes God unnecessary”

We can both agree that scientists have mapped every inch of land in this world, now I would like you to show me on a map where is Gog and Magog (or Yazuz Mazuz since you only want to talk about Quran)? I bet you will not be able to. I can make a whole list of such fantastical claims made throughout Islam which has no basis in rationality.

Knowledge cannot be equated with belief; however one can definitely argue that the sane and rational will be able to make a clear distinction between facts and fiction if aided with sufficient evidence. And most would agree that there is no evidence for God.

I do NOT think a person who believes in religion is dumb. However I strongly believe that the particular religious person is most certainly born into that religion. He most certainly believes that his God is the only true God and all other God’s and religion (there are thousands) are false. That person believes he is truly blessed. AND If I bet that YOU fall in this category, I have more than 99.99% probability of being right. So tell me Am I right?

As a child our brains are wired to trust our parents. As a child you are warned “Do not touch hot surface”, “do not jump in that lake”, “do not eat that rotten food” oh and “believe in God”. While the first three suggestion is totally valid, the last one is not. However when the child is bombarded with the idea of God along with all other valid information, he is naturally inclined to believe in God himself.

Now if a child grows up not being bombarded with the idea of a creator, and only finds out about religion after he reaches a certain age, do you think he would read the gloriously vague Koran and convert to Islam?

Again, please do not think that since I am mentioning Quran/Islam, I have an agenda against one particular religion. The same arguments are true for all major religions.

I do not understand the term “Militant Atheist”? Would you care to explain? How are they militant? Does writing and arguing against the idea of God make me a militant atheist?

Am I a militant atheist if I disagree with the Islamic teaching that it is halal to “Beat your wife”but haram to “eat pork”. OR "pre-marital sex" is haram but "sex-slaves" are halal? Or stoning/decapitation/lashing is a legitimate form for punishment and not inhumane?

Here is what I think. I Think that when a person starts using personal attacks instead of arguing the content of the debate, he truly lost his argument (or he has no argument against it).

Finally please do not call “Atheism” a religion. "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
This is so wonderful to read. Want to frame this on my wall.
__________________
#PrivatizeBCB
#PrivatizeBFF
The end of Rahim will mark a new great beginning for the complacency free Bangladesh!
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old September 30, 2019, 11:10 AM
Shingara's Avatar
Shingara Shingara is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: March 6, 2016
Location: USAF AWACS
Favorite Player: Pilot
Posts: 1,987

Is Herewego = Zeeshan ?
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old September 30, 2019, 06:17 PM
epitaph's Avatar
epitaph epitaph is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Posts: 1,394

There are only two major differences between Islam and Christianity.

One is the diff between main prophets (one was a hippie, the other a warlord), and the other is separation between church and state vs no separation.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old September 30, 2019, 06:22 PM
epitaph's Avatar
epitaph epitaph is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Posts: 1,394

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
I understand that you like to make a distinction between christianity and Islam. However, for a rational person, it makes no difference if it is a Flying Raindeer used by Santa Claus or a Flying donkey (Buraq) used by Muhammad. Both are rightly interpreted as works of fiction. I believe it was Stephen Hawkins that said “One can’t prove that God doesn’t exist just like one cannot prove that superman doesn’t exist. But science makes God unnecessary”

We can both agree that scientists have mapped every inch of land in this world, now I would like you to show me on a map where is Gog and Magog (or Yazuz Mazuz since you only want to talk about Quran)? I bet you will not be able to. I can make a whole list of such fantastical claims made throughout Islam which has no basis in rationality.

Knowledge cannot be equated with belief; however one can definitely argue that the sane and rational will be able to make a clear distinction between facts and fiction if aided with sufficient evidence. And most would agree that there is no evidence for God.

I do NOT think a person who believes in religion is dumb. However I strongly believe that the particular religious person is most certainly born into that religion. He most certainly believes that his God is the only true God and all other God’s and religion (there are thousands) are false. That person believes he is truly blessed. AND If I bet that YOU fall in this category, I have more than 99.99% probability of being right. So tell me Am I right?

As a child our brains are wired to trust our parents. As a child you are warned “Do not touch hot surface”, “do not jump in that lake”, “do not eat that rotten food” oh and “believe in God”. While the first three suggestion is totally valid, the last one is not. However when the child is bombarded with the idea of God along with all other valid information, he is naturally inclined to believe in God himself.

Now if a child grows up not being bombarded with the idea of a creator, and only finds out about religion after he reaches a certain age, do you think he would read the gloriously vague Koran and convert to Islam?

Again, please do not think that since I am mentioning Quran/Islam, I have an agenda against one particular religion. The same arguments are true for all major religions.

I do not understand the term “Militant Atheist”? Would you care to explain? How are they militant? Does writing and arguing against the idea of God make me a militant atheist?

Am I a militant atheist if I disagree with the Islamic teaching that it is halal to “Beat your wife”but haram to “eat pork”. OR "pre-marital sex" is haram but "sex-slaves" are halal? Or stoning/decapitation/lashing is a legitimate form for punishment and not inhumane?

Here is what I think. I Think that when a person starts using personal attacks instead of arguing the content of the debate, he truly lost his argument (or he has no argument against it).

Finally please do not call “Atheism” a religion. "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
Well said.
__________________
"No problem bowling, but speaking and batting, problem." - The Fizz
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old September 30, 2019, 07:16 PM
BengaliPagol's Avatar
BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Meherpur, Kushtia
Favorite Player: Imrul "The Don" Kayes
Posts: 7,582

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
This is so wonderful to read. Want to frame this on my wall.
It's a terrible post and its cringe that people are so easily satisfied with poor level of intellectual discourse. ToBeFair's post pretty much dissected it and elevated the level of discourse.
__________________
Boys In The Cave - Reviving Islamic Intellectual Discourse. Check out the links below. boysinthecave.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/boysinthecave
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old September 30, 2019, 07:23 PM
BengaliPagol's Avatar
BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Meherpur, Kushtia
Favorite Player: Imrul "The Don" Kayes
Posts: 7,582

Quote:
Originally Posted by epitaph
https://youtu.be/WZCuF733p88
NDT? I hope you are joking lol. I love watching people like you undergoing confirmation bias.

NDT is the same guy that gets defensive over simple topics. And he deserves to take the L when it comes to talking about Imam Ghazali. He needs to stay in his lane.

I genuinely pitied him in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jqQ...k8wGE0lmTbXA8g
__________________
Boys In The Cave - Reviving Islamic Intellectual Discourse. Check out the links below. boysinthecave.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/boysinthecave
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old September 30, 2019, 10:52 PM
Rifat's Avatar
Rifat Rifat is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Favorite Player: Abu Jayed Rahi
Posts: 15,515

Quote:
Originally Posted by epitaph
https://youtu.be/WZCuF733p88
Thank you for posting this video. I agree with the spirit of what Neil de Grasse Tyson said except when he misquoted Imam al Ghazzali

https://thedailybanter.com/2010/08/1...-anti-science/
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old September 30, 2019, 10:58 PM
Rifat's Avatar
Rifat Rifat is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Favorite Player: Abu Jayed Rahi
Posts: 15,515

Quote:
Originally Posted by epitaph
There are only two major differences between Islam and Christianity.

One is the diff between main prophets (one was a hippie, the other a warlord), and the other is separation between church and state vs no separation.
Before Protestantism emerged, there was no separation between church and state in most of the christian world. Look up English, French history. Even today, true Separation between church and state exists in theory then why the hell government care about who marries who. why is it their business to begin with? a lot of Laws(both federal and state) in the United States have biblical influence for certain.

Separation of Church and State is an American concept (Thomas Jefferson), which is not rooted in Christianity.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old September 30, 2019, 11:11 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 7, 2006
Posts: 2,376

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
I believe people are conflating few issues here:


1. Islam is full of SUPRARATIONAL facts. Whether it is belief in the hereafter, belief in the unseen, belief in Buraq and the night journey, belief in Gog and Magog - these tenets of faith/stories cannot be completely explained by rationality/reason. However, those who believe in Islam by choice, they believe in it because (1) the theology of Islam makes sense – they find it to be the most coherent (2) the world view of Islam makes sense (3) the legal system of Islam makes sense – they find to be a just system (4) Islamic moral code makes sense – it provides a clear distinction between right and wrong. Together, they answer the most fundamental questions of life: the purpose of life, where we came from, where we are going. When Islamic theology, world view, legal system, and moral codes make sense holistically, we find it too overwhelming to reject the veracity of prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (S). Rationally it is not possible for a random person in the middle a desert to come up with such a functioning system, unless he is a prophet of God. Therefore, Muslims accept the complete package, which includes suprarational facts. By mentioning a random suprarational fact or an incident from the life of Prophet that does not make sense per current societal standards, if you think you have got a gotcha, you will be disappointed, because the believers in Islam do not believe in Islam because of those secondary or tertiary suprarational facts in the first place, but rather, they believe in it because they find the overall religion to be reasonable and intuitive.
Supra-rational is a very fancy word. Let’s keep discussion simple. Either something happened or it did not happen. Either something exist or it does not exist. Either the words in Quran/Sahih Hadith is true or it is Untrue. Gog and Magog is mentioned in the Quran , so do they exist or not? IF they exist, where are they now? Very simple question.

Did God split the moon on behalf of Muhammad or not? This would be a massive event in the history of the world, so was there any independent witnesses or not? Is there any evidence of moon splitting or not? Is moon splitting true or not?

Do you believe in Evolution or not? Does Islam believe that humans and apes share a common ancestor? Without going into details of evolutionary biology, it is suffice to say that any suggestion on the contrary only helps explain the reasoning behind large percentage of atheist amongst scientific community.

Did anyone see Muhammad flying on Buraq or not? Was there any independent witnesses or not? What was the date of travel? Surely just witnessing Muhammad’s flight on top of a heavenly creature would remove any doubt of his prophet hood and existence of God, so did millions witness his flight and convert? What exactly happened? Did he dream? Did he hallucinate? Or is this all a big lie?

The funniest Biblical story, which was subsequently plagiarized in Islam, is the story of the Ark (Noah). Simple question, Is it a true story? Was there any geological (scientific) evidence of such a flood? How does all soul get corrupt (including babies)? How can you fit all the animal species which should occupy a volume much greater than the volume of the boat (even miracle cannot explain this)? How do you provide for food? Etc etc.

I don’t want to bore you with more such stories (and there are plenty more), my point is that “Supra-rational” is a fancy way of saying “Sorry, got no answers to your question?”

Now lets talk a little about the five points that you presented

1/Theology of Islam makes sense –

Disagree
Theology of Islam makes absolutely no sense. God created us to worship him. If we do not worship him than that is the mistake of the creator. If I write a code that does not work, than I am to blame.

If we worship him and follow all the commands of God, we will end up in Paradise. According to Quran and Sahih Hadith, we will have rivers of Wine (alcohol) in Heaven. We will also be serviced by virgins to our hearts content. To me heaven, as described in Islam, sounds like a disgusting place. It sounds to me like a place dreamed up by 7th century Arab men.

Ideal heaven for me is the quality time I spend with my family and friends. It is not brothels and rivers of wine and honey.

2/ World view of Islam make sense –

Disagree.
As already discussed earlier, Islam has little to no problem with slavery. While freeing a slave is considered a good deed, however one can have slaves if he so wishes. Sex-slaves or right hand possession is absolutely legal.

Islam also never banned child marriage.

It will not be wrong to suggest that Islam subjugates women.

3 and 4/ Legal system and Islamic moral codes make sense –

Disagree.
Stoning, amputation, decapitation etc cannot be an example of a great judicial system. Not to mention the testimony of men vs women. I can literally write an essay about the flaws in Islamic legal system but I am sure everyone here is aware of the drawbacks.

5/ Purpose of Life
I would somewhat agree with this. Islam and all religion in general, does provide a purpose to keep living. It does provide hope of something better to people with otherwise hopeless existence.


Sorry do not have the time tonight to go over all the other points you mentioned in your post.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket