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  #1  
Old March 28, 2011, 12:00 PM
sujon sujon is offline
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Angry Dhaka bids farewell to the World Cup

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cric...btc/index.html

What a shocker! Just see how people respond to the question possed about why they support pakistan in so large numbers. see at 5:36. I am speechless!

I do not want to restart the debate on why should we not support the pakistan cricket team, but I want some of the respondents kicked out of Bangladesh to live in Pakistan. I hope this is just a small part of pakistan cricket supporters in Bangladesh who think this way- i really do.

A new ethnic group has emerged in Bangladesh by the name of BangPaki.
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Last edited by sujon; March 28, 2011 at 12:17 PM..
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  #2  
Old March 28, 2011, 12:05 PM
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I feel like punching these thugs!!!
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  #3  
Old March 28, 2011, 12:38 PM
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Two things.

First, the so-called "reporters" are not blameless here. They went looking specifically for Pakmastaan supporters who would say inflammatory things. I'll bet $100 that they edited out more sensible responses. Frankly, I was a little miffed with the condescending tone of the commentary on every single video these guys have shot in Bangladesh.

Second, it is no secret that we have plenty of the Muslim-Muslim-bhai-bhai crowd in our midst, not to mention Rajakars and their offspring, as well as those who simply lack an iota of self-respect. As long as the rest of us stand firm and remain vigilant, we'll be fine.
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  #4  
Old March 28, 2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubho
Two things.

First, the so-called "reporters" are not blameless here. They went looking specifically for Pakmastaan supporters who would say inflammatory things. I'll bet $100 that they edited out more sensible responses. Frankly, I was a little miffed with the condescending tone of the commentary on every single video these guys have shot in Bangladesh.

Second, it is no secret that we have plenty of the Muslim-Muslim-bhai-bhai crowd in our midst, not to mention Rajakars and their offspring, as well as those who simply lack an iota of self-respect. As long as the rest of us stand firm and remain vigilant, we'll be fine.
Amen to all that. It isn't about the cricket but flying the flag of GENOCIDE, MASS RAPE, MASS TORTURE AND BRIGANDAGE just 2 days before it all began. The best we can do is inform the misguided as to what really happened and let their sense of morality and decency work out the rest.

How can we "forgive and forget" when no official acknowledgment, apology or reparation offer was made for those crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people? Those who think it isn't a big deal, especially the ironically and outwardly "religious" ones, ought to have their hearts examined for their own good.

In fact, Pakistan has gone out of its way misguiding the world about the truth, and deliberately failed to fulfill its obligation under the Simla Agreement by refusing to try the alleged war criminals in its custody.

All decent Pakistani individuals need to inform themselves of the brutal legacy of their government's crimes in 1971 and before that, and then actively spread the truth. Hopefully such knowledge and public pressure will eventually lead to the acknowledgment, apology and reparations necessary to begin the long overdue expiation . Pakistan also needs to actively assist the Bangladeshi government in the International Crimes Tribunal underway here, rather than trying to subvert the process, while holding its own trials in its own territory.

Until and unless that happens, BangPaki or not, flying that flag is an insult.

That being said, people fought and died for anti-totalitarian values where people have the right to be "wrong" so to speak. It is not a matter of imposition or coercion, but of debate, persuasion, and being able to agree to disagree, no matter how egregiously insensitive and disagreeable something may be. That's what makes us better than them both politically and spiritually, and that's how we truly honor the martyrs who brought us here.
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Last edited by Sohel; March 29, 2011 at 12:59 AM..
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  #5  
Old March 28, 2011, 01:19 PM
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there are many "soronarthi" in the geneva camp in dhaka..most of them are biharies..they support Pakistan..i wonder most of the face paints and flag Carriers were them or not..
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  #6  
Old March 28, 2011, 01:19 PM
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  #7  
Old March 28, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_wolf
there are many "soronarthi" in the geneva camp in dhaka..most of them are biharies..they support Pakistan..i wonder most of the face paints and flag Carriers were them or not..
Not a chance, the match on wednesday will tell you all you need to know.
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  #8  
Old March 28, 2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Not a chance, the match on wednesday will tell you all you need to know.
i know some of us have unconditional love for pak cricket team but i still find it hard to believe Banglies flying pak flag and face painting pak colours in the stadium..but i saw this with my own eyes..so i was wondering can these guys be biharies..
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  #9  
Old March 28, 2011, 02:02 PM
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I saw my grandad cry for the 2nd time the other day(the first being when his mother died couple of years back), as he went into detail of the liberation war. Now Im still very young and I havent spent significant amount of years of my life living in Bangladesh so Im pretty alienated from the current generation of the Bangladeshis' perception of 1971. So this is it then? shocking..
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  #10  
Old March 28, 2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger-ess
I saw my grandad cry for the 2nd time the other day(the first being when his mother died couple of years back), as he went into detail of the liberation war. Now Im still very young and I havent spent significant amount of years of my life living in Bangladesh so Im pretty alienated from the current generation of the Bangladeshis' perception of 1971. So this is it then? shocking..
not only the current generation dear but people older than us like one of my own boro bhai who is like 38+ supports Pak strongly.
many of that generation and this generation are still supporting Pak, eventhough these days we see lots of documentary programs,dramas & different activities involving 1971 which is good,but as a nation unfortunately many are still taking "Muktijuddho" lightly which is a shame.
1971 er kotha bhebe amader oboshshoi Pak support kora uchit na.
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  #11  
Old March 28, 2011, 02:53 PM
Dark_Horse Dark_Horse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger-ess
I saw my grandad cry for the 2nd time the other day(the first being when his mother died couple of years back), as he went into detail of the liberation war. Now Im still very young and I havent spent significant amount of years of my life living in Bangladesh so Im pretty alienated from the current generation of the Bangladeshis' perception of 1971. So this is it then? shocking..
Shameful but not shocking anymore. We have had 40 years of freedom and see what a mess we have made to our promised "Sonar Bangla". No wonder we are still breeding these shameless bunch of people.
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  #12  
Old March 28, 2011, 05:30 PM
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The education is to blame here.

We don't only get educated at school. Education starts in way earlier than that. What we learn from our parents, our society. I am sure if those supporters were informed about the horror that our nation had to endure in 1971, they would not be singing alongside Pakistanis at Mirpur stadium.

And i was lucky enough not to born in that time and i never had to face the uncertainty about life or death.
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  #13  
Old March 28, 2011, 06:38 PM
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I want to mention some facts (from website) for all Pakistan Cricket Fans who born in Bangladesh. You like it or not, ignore it or count it---it is real….it happened…the whole world observed this.

Genocide:
“…… we were told to kill the hindus and Kafirs (non-believer in God). One day in June, we cordoned a village and were ordered to kill the Kafirs in that area. We found all the village women reciting from the Holy Quran, and the men holding special congregational prayers seeking God’s mercy. But they were unlucky. Our commanding officer ordered us not to waste any time.”

It all started with Operation Searchlight, a planned military pacification carried out by the Pakistan Army started on 25 March, 1971 to curb the Bengali nationalist movement by taking control of the major cities on March 26, and then eliminating all opposition, political or military, within one month. Before the beginning of the operation, all foreign journalists were systematically deported from Bangladesh. The main phase of Operation Searchlight ended with the fall of the last major town in Bengali hands in mid May.

According to New York Times (3/28/71) 10,000 people were killed; New York Times (3/29/71) 5,000-7,000 people were killed in Dhaka; The Sydney Morning Herald (3/29/71) 10,000 – 100,000 were killed; New York Times (4/1/71) 35,000 were killed in Dhaka during operation searchlight.

The operation also began the 1971 Bangladesh atrocities. These systematic killings served only to enrage the Bengalis, which ultimately resulted in the secession of East Pakistan later in December, 1971. The international media and reference books in English have published casualty figures which vary greatly; 200,000–3,000,000 for Bangladesh as a whole.

There is only one word for this: Genocide.

Genocide in Bangladesh, 1971

The mass killings in Bangladesh (then East Pakistan) in 1971 vie with the annihilation of the Soviet POWs, the holocaust against the Jews, and the genocide in Rwanda as the most concentrated act of genocide in the twentieth century. In an attempt to crush forces seeking independence for East Pakistan, the West Pakistani military regime unleashed a systematic campaign of mass murder which aimed at killing millions of Bengalis, and likely succeeded in doing so.

In national elections held in December 1970, the Awami League won an overwhelming victory across Bengali territory. On February 22, 1971 the generals in West Pakistan took a decision to crush the Awami League and its supporters. It was recognized from the first that a campaign of genocide would be necessary to eradicate the threat: “Kill three million of them,” said President Yahya Khan at the February conference, “and the rest will eat out of our hands.” (Robert Payne, Massacre [1972], p. 50.) On March 25 the genocide was launched. The university in Dacca (Dhaka) was attacked and students exterminated in their hundreds. Death squads roamed the streets of Dacca, killing some 7,000 people in a single night. It was only the beginning. “Within a week, half the population of Dacca had fled, and at least 30,000 people had been killed. Chittagong, too, had lost half its population. All over East Pakistan people were taking flight, and it was estimated that in April some thirty million people [!] were wandering helplessly across East Pakistan to escape the grasp of the military.” (Payne, Massacre, p. 48.) Ten million refugees fled to India, overwhelming that country’s resources and spurring the eventual Indian military intervention. (The population of Bangladesh/East Pakistan at the outbreak of the genocide was about 75 million.)

The Guinness Book of Records lists the Bangladesh Genocide as one of the top 5 genocides in the 20th century.

Killing of intellectuals

During the war, the Pakistan Army and its local collaborators carried out a systematic execution of the leading Bengali intellectuals. A number of professors from Dhaka University were killed during the first few days of the war.[33][34] However, the most extreme cases of targeted killing of intellectuals took place during the last few days of the war. Professors, journalists, doctors, artists, engineers, writers were rounded up by Pakistan Army and the Razakar militia in Dhaka, blindfolded, taken to torture cells in Mirpur, Mohammadpur, Nakhalpara, Rajarbagh and other locations in different sections of the city to be executed en masse in the killing fields, most notably at Rayerbazar and Mirpur.[35][36][37][38] Allegedly, the Pakistani Army and its paramilitary arm, the Al-Badr and Al-Shams forces created a list of doctors, teachers, poets, and scholars.[39][40]

During the nine month duration of the war, the Pakistani army, with the assistance of local collaborators systematically executed an estimated 991 teachers, 13 journalists, 49 physicians, 42 lawyers, and 16 writers, artists and engineers.[37] Even after the official ending of the war on 16 December there were reports of firing from the armed Pakistani soldiers or their collaborators. In one such incident, notable film-maker Jahir Raihan was killed on January 30, 1972 in Mirpur allegedly by the armed Beharis. In memory of the persons killed, December 14 is mourned in Bangladesh as Shaheed Buddhijibi Dibosh ("Day of the Martyred Intellectuals").[6][41][42]

Several noted intellectuals who were killed from the time period of 25 March to 16 December 1971 in different parts of the country include Dhaka University professors Dr. Govinda Chandra Dev (Philosophy), Dr. Munier Chowdhury (Bengali Literature), Dr. Mufazzal Haider Chaudhury (Bengali Literature), Dr. Anwar Pasha (Bengali Literature), Dr M Abul Khair (History), Dr. Jyotirmoy Guhathakurta (English Literature), Humayun Kabir (English Literature), Rashidul Hasan (English Literature) and Saidul Hassan (Physics), as well Dr. Hobibur Rahman (Professor of Mathematics at Rajshahi University), Dr. Mohammed Fazle Rabbee (Cardiologist), Dr. Alim Chowdhury (Ophthalmologist), Shahidullah Kaiser (Journalist), Nizamuddin Ahmed (Journalist),[43] Selina Parvin (Journalist), Altaf Mahmud (Lyricist and musician), Dhirendranath Datta (Politician) and Ranadaprasad Saha (Philanthropist).
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  #14  
Old March 28, 2011, 06:44 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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And some relevant links from my website:

History : Independence
Prelude to Independence


Students Breaking Section 144. February 21 1952
Article by Tanweer Akram
A scholarly article detailing out the historical basis for Bangladesh's independence.
A brief history of the Bangla Language Movement
An article by Mohammad Bari describing the events leading to the language movement.
Economic Exploitation
This article discusses the economic exploitation that Bangladesh suffered in its 23 year union with Pakistan.
The March Days
(Courtesy, Abu Hussain). This is a collection of events from the heady days of March 1971 leading to the the declaration of Independence on the 26th of March.
Independence: Facts and Figures

Declaration of Independence
The story behind the declaration of Independence on March 26, 1971.
PM Tajuddin Ahmed's statement to the world, April 17, 1971.
On April 17, 1971, the then acting PM of Bangladesh made a statement to the world to support the Bangladesh cause for freedom.
The Bengali genocide
The hundreds of thousands who were killed by the marauding Pakistani army during the war. A statistical look.
Genocide Museum
Images of genocide.
Eyewitness Accounts
Various eye witness accounts from the liberation war.
US Congressional Records
Records from the US congress regarding Bangladesh during the war.
US State Department Archives
Archives that capture events before, drign and after the war.
International Press
Coverage by the international press
Videos
Rare news footages from the forein pres. Graphic content warning.
The Surrender Document
About the final surrender by the Pakistani Army to the combine allied forces of Bangladesh and India.
Includes pictures of the surrender ceremony and the actual Instrument of surrender.
Remembering a Liberation War
Twenty five years ago, India and Pakistan went to war over the issue of Bangladesh. Mukti Bahini guerillas and Indian soldiers swept past Pakistani defenses and forced the Pakistani Army to surrender within two weeks. On the western front, Indians and Pakistanis fought a series of even deadlier battles. This 1971 War web exhibition commemorates that war...
A long bibliography.
Please help add to this list by emailing us.
Tri-partite Agreement
The tripartite agreement signed between the governments of Bangladesh, India and Pakistan for normalization of relationship.
Legacy

A Nation Awakened: The Legacy of Jahanara Imam
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  #15  
Old March 28, 2011, 07:23 PM
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No matter how you try to educate them, they have already acquired the blindness not to accept why its bad to wave the Pakistani flags, paint in green and white and crescents. Most of them will simply say "do not mix politics and sports". I do not know how to educate these people.
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  #16  
Old March 28, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Well my shame levels have risen beyond measure after watching those interviews. But the levels were already up during the Pakistan/Windies clash. I sometimes feel self-respect is non-existent in our nation.
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  #17  
Old March 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
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oi amare kew dhor
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  #18  
Old March 28, 2011, 08:13 PM
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oh man I dont even know what to say!
Seriously to the people that said because we were once a part of them or something? ARE YOU freakin' kiddin' me?
who edited this thing?
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  #19  
Old March 28, 2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujon
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cric...btc/index.html

I do not want to restart the debate on why should we not support the pakistan cricket team,
What right do you have to tell people, not to support a sports team?
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  #20  
Old March 28, 2011, 08:37 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafi
What right do you have to tell people, not to support a sports team?
the same right they have to support a sports team.
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  #21  
Old March 28, 2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujon
What a shocker! Just see how people respond to the question possed about why they support pakistan in so large numbers. see at 5:36. I am speechless!
What he said was correct, Pakistanis and Bengalis (especially with muslims backgrounds) share the same roots of ancestors, especially during the Persian era, and the later Afghan eras of Bangladesh.

Where do you think muslim Bengalis came from, out of the ground?

Go read a book and educate yourself, he didnt say anything incorrect.

http://www.uplbooks.com.bd/index.php...og_details/162

However yes I am angry at the fact that Pakistan havent given an official apology
Quote:
In fact, Pakistan has gone out of its way misguiding the world about the truth, and deliberately failed to fulfill its obligation under the Simla Agreement by refusing to try the alleged war criminals in its custody.
I agree with Sohel's position, waving the flag is a no-no, wave something else like Shahid Afridi poster, but not the flag - the same flag that terrible crimes were commited under

Quote:
All decent Pakistani individuals need to inform themselves of the brutal legacy of their government's crimes in 1971 and before that, and then actively spread the truth. Hopefully such knowledge and resultant public pressure will eventually result in the acknowledgment, apology and reparations necessary to begin the long overdue expiation . Pakistan also needs to actively assist the Bangladeshi government in the International Crimes Tribunal underway here, rather than trying to subvert the process, while holding its own trials with regards to the accused in its territory.

Until and unless that happens, BangPaki or not, flying that flag is an insult.
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Last edited by Nafi; March 28, 2011 at 08:48 PM..
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  #22  
Old March 28, 2011, 08:59 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafi
What he said was correct, Pakistanis and Bengalis (especially with muslims backgrounds) share the same roots of ancestors, especially during the Persian era, and the later Afghan eras of Bangladesh.

Where do you think muslim Bengalis came from, out of the ground?

Go read a book and educate yourself, he didnt say anything incorrect.

http://www.uplbooks.com.bd/index.php...og_details/162
A vast majority of Bengalis are original inhabitants of Vanga and Muslims and Hindus both come from the same stock. Overwhelming majority of Muslim Bengalis ancestors are converts from Hinduism. Sufi masters were the single most important factor in South Asian conversions to Islam, particularly in Bangladesh.

As someone with professional lingustic anthropology training, ethnically we share more with the Hindus of West Bengal than the Muslims of Afghanistan (even less so if the Afhgan are of Turkick, Hazara or Uzbek origin). Only a miniscule few Bangalis can purport to have an West Asian background. Have you read the book you linked?

We almost did come out of the ground. We were already here prior to the advent of Islam to the region.

Islamization of Bengal does have multiple causes such as conversion as means of social liberation, conversion by force (yes, that happened too), conversion by patronage. The least tenable reason is conversion by immigration.

Quote:
a) Immigration: i.e. people of West Asian stock invaded/immigrated into this region displacing/killing off/peacefully coexisting with the indigenous population. This theory is probably the least credible in the light of anthropometric and genetic studies, which points to the indigenous origin of most Bengali Muslims. Also only a small fraction of them identify themselves as ashrafs, i.e. immigrants of middle-eastern origin, and are usually to be found in the more urban aristocratic classes, whereas the majority of ethnically Bengali Muslims were agriculturists settled in the more remote parts of the Gangetic delta.
I am pretty sure the young man quoted as saying we were part of them wasn't going back that far in history. Heck, we were part of British India - who do we support then?
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  #23  
Old March 28, 2011, 09:15 PM
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Theres people in Bangladesh who wave Indian flags. Not really a big deal. People in Bangladesh wave Brazilian and Argentian flags during the football world cup.
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  #24  
Old March 28, 2011, 09:21 PM
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It's important we pray for those who were the victims of genocide 40 years ago. And learn the History. But this type of 40 year old Hasina mentality is exactly whats wrong with this country. We're still campaigning for the same politics that happened 40 years ago.
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Old March 28, 2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1212
It's important we pray for those who were the victims of genocide 40 years ago. And learn the History. But this type of 40 year old Hasina mentality is exactly whats wrong with this country. We're still campaigning for the same politics that happened 40 years ago.
Who is "we" on your last sentence? Point me to some examples in this forum and in relevant threads that puport to show "40 year old Hasina mentaity"? What does that mean anyway?

Yes, we should all pray for the victims and we all need to find closure so that we can move on.
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