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  #151  
Old October 5, 2019, 07:40 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
^I can see how your mind works and why did you put morality in the mix. I was trying very hard to keep up with your analysis but mention of morality actually made me say something. If you are corelating morality with chastity or asceticism (what I think you are) then that is a big problem. So, a law abiding citizen who practice safe sex and does not follow any major religion would be immoral by that weird definition.
I put morality in the mix because moral objectivity (in an absolute sense) and moral oughtness cannot be explained/defined without God or an external reference. Example: Is killing wrong?

1. Unless you believe in God who blessed earthy bodies with soul, you cannot argue that human beings have any intrinsic value in the grand scheme of things. And if there is no intrinsic value, killing cannot be wrong. Everything came out of nothing - everything is just random amalgamation of molecules and atom, and by killing, you are simply rearranging those molecules and atoms.

2. You can argue that harm/pain is objective and can be proven scientifically, and thus I have no right to cause harm unto others by killing them. Even if harm is objective, it can also be relative when you bring in Utilitarianism. Say a group of 50 cannibals are starving to death - and if they kill one of them for food, they will save 49 lives at the expense of one. Is killing moral in this scenario? Also, if inflicting harm is immoral, does it mean humanity altogether should go vegan?

3. What incentive should I have to not kill if it increases my life value assuming I can get away with it and there are no metaphysical consequences for my actions? Why should Monsanto stop poisoning the environment and harming and killing millions of people? They have legally bribed the politicians who have written laws in their favor. They are causing cancers and killing people, but their corporate profit keeps growing, and thereby maximizing their executives' enjoyment of 'you only live once' life.
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  #152  
Old October 5, 2019, 11:04 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Things you see into other exists within you.

I think I've had this realization once...
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  #153  
Old October 5, 2019, 11:23 AM
One World One World is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
I put morality in the mix because .....
^In the grand scheme of things, you do not need a faith or belief system to justify the social harm a murder or killing can bring. Human race has plenty of evidence from the history and past cultures, for example, the sacrifice of human babies in the Aztek civilization, which are more than sufficient to establish the norm. Actually that is what saving us while living within a modern society along with diversity.

If you need a God to justify that then you are doomed. Empathy is lost. Look at rural India. How every other day one or two people get lynched by rumor of eating beef. Even among Hutis of Yemen and Saudi Kingdom the war is because believing in same God in a slightly different ways. There are many such evidence in all over the world. Bosnian war, Chechnya, Iraq-Iran, Iraq-Kuwait all those wars which caused millions makes you wonder whether you are living in an ancient era of Alexander (Sikander Shah) or even Napoleons' time or is it really during information age. As long as I recall, none of those conflicts involved cannibals so, you do not need to fetch examples from fantasy. Or you do only when all available information goes against your argument.

The way you pictured Monsanto, can easily be replaced by Islam by a non-believer or a person of alternate faith. They can argue that with current Saudi regime, putting the emphasis on the same valid points you are basing on. If a non-Muslim says that in medieval era the Caliphate used the religion to establish an empire and secure their lifelong luxuries, a Muslim will say, no, that was for spreading our faith and make Islam shine. For a sufferer or someone who does not follow the religion, those emotions or purpose bring no value. He/she may has a different purpose which is similarly important to him/her which got abused and neglected in the process.

To me, faith and belief system should not be put into any logical discussion involving material world or science. Belief system cannot be proven by natural world or systems. So it is better not to bring them in when you are talking about earthly processes, scientific phenomenon or human inferred logic.
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  #154  
Old October 17, 2019, 06:28 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
You guys just never learn. Do you?
Oh look. Our prissy boy is here. Where were you when the forum went to hell in a handbasket when you actually had to do some FRIKKIN work instead of khobordari?

I doff my hat to Orphy for having the balls to point this out.
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  #155  
Old October 17, 2019, 06:30 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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I wrote it on my YouTube page. It is littered with expletives so hopefully it will auto-censor by the forum program. This was once my recent realization which I am sure and no doubt ToBeFair will appreciate.

Quote:
When I was in college six years ago and took Theater Arts, our professor - whose name I still remember- once said feigning a tone of incredulity: "[....] don't you know it's about who you know in Hollywood that decides success..." To which I scoffed in my mind: "What a loser talk. If you have talent and you work hard obviously you will succeed."


Little did I know as a young naif how deluded I was. The fact that luck and connection and bootlicking and other variables plays a much bigger role in deciding factors of success eluded me. Escaped me.


The truth of the matter is - and has been part of my Awakening from the eternal Pollyanna that I was - is the fact that people are nasty, selfish, mean spirited, downright evil and nefarious. You can tick all the boxes and do everything right and you will still be ignored, knocked down and neglected. (This thread is a bit tangential to the new Joker film which I have my own reservations about the portrayal of mentally ill in a pitiful manner which Todd Phillips is so adept at as seen from Alan's character in Hangover.)


The point being you can work hard as you like, you can do all the scrubbing and polishing and detailing with sweat, blood and tears but you will still be ignored. I myself did an experiment on Facebook where I thought my posts are not being seen because no one seemed to care about the posts """""I"""""" like instead when I faked a post: "Soo good I got a good grade in college" suddenly all these assholes crept out of their woodwork and started liking it. This just shows how nefarious people can be. Because the truth is I absolutely ****in HATE college.


There was time when I wanted to open a club, and no one showed up. If it was the old me, I would say : "oh shut up, at least be grateful they wanted to make it but maybe got busy." That is such a beta cuck way of presenting it. Now my rancor has liberated me. The point is you don't know that. Are you trying to tell me that of all the 7 or so people all of them got busy at the same time? And part of that thought pattern was responsible because of the people I admired and was attracted to so that I surreptitiously got inculcated with their line of thinking.


Now my higher Self will say: Are you ****in shitting me? Once you make a commitment you make it. Hence it's called commitment. The fact is should "I" have failed to show up then these so called wellwishing "mentors" would beat down on me. But that voice to beat down ironically had been harbored by me and internalized.


It's almost nothing I would do or did was good enough. Damned if I was on the other side, damned if I was this. And that's the problem with hanging out with beta cucks who will always bend over backwards to please other.


Now I can see why the incel people may be marginalized and neglected and feel the need to vociferously express them in less than palatable ways. And in some unfortunate cases - violence. And obviously that's just a pitiful, woeful way to end the life.


But this is besides the point. Part of my Awakening was to realize that the world is not as it seems. People are nasty, selfish, mean-spirited, hateful, spiteful and downright evil who will gaslight you to think something is wrong with "YOU". As if things are you doing are not good enough. "Only if you try a little hard enough... only...if only."


But the fact is you can try as hard as you want and the least qualified and still the other person get the job. You can make the damned best video on YouTube and you open up browser in incognito and you see all these shitty, crapfest videos glazing the front page. Whether it be stackexchange or mathoverflow or some distinguished professor from college, they are not interested in Truth and Research and Philosophy. They are just selfishly motivated to further their own egoic agenda.


Facebook algorithm works just like sucking each other's cock. You pat mine and I will yours. Hence you see the people with whom you interact most will have more tendency to reciprocate. This is among one of the reasons I don't use that medium anymore. Another being where there was this illusion "ohh.. ohh once you only create the finest product (or page) and people will flock you" which is another pure Pollyanna b.s. And also another deceptive fact is you might advertise and people will like in droves but will hardly interact and engage. Another facade.


If the world was not corrupt and evil there would BE NO university scandal where venal academics were in cahoots with the parents who fed them wad full of monies.


So you see, world is not as nice as you think it is. I used to think Democrats are these enlightened soul who are fighting the righteous battle. But they are as sleazeball as the man next door. They preach compassion, open mindedness and acceptance but they act like big child who didn't get their crooked Hillary so they made it a mission to downtrod on His "Majesty" and knock him at every corner. They will tell their child who failed to win an award: "Oh grow up FFS and accept the loss" yet they themselves act like big, fat babies.


I mention this because California is mostly democratic. And my impression was I was enveloped with angelic soul. But these people are as nasty as the ones they vilify.


Now I needed to swallow this bitter pill because only way to awaken me and salvage me from the mess I got in was to balance it by having the perspective 'yes just as people can be kind, compassion, nice, polite, honest and truthful" they can also be bloody ****in assholes and corrupt and unkind and spiteful who gaslights you."


And I needed to hear this to come back full circle back to my Pollyanna self. Because in reality, the world is neither good nor bad. People are both. In reality, the world is in perfect balance and equilibrium. And the REASON why it is in perfect balance is precisely because of these evil guys.


And yes, if you are wondering I did finally find peace after all afterwards. Just like Eminem said: "Once I stopped giving a f*** that's when things turned around."


"Mountains are mountains and waters are waters;
After a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters;
After enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."
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  #156  
Old October 17, 2019, 08:30 AM
One World One World is offline
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^Thanks Zee, while you have a knack of writing and seems like that is your proven niche, I must say 90% of the time I get bored in the middle. No offense but I think you stretch redundantly abruptly fetching metaphors from diversified sectors, which might be okay for most readers. What you can say in few words I will keep it to few, may be not your style. I agree on the point though. People are not nice not even at the most liberal environments and hard work only pays off at a threshold. For going beyond you need to acquire some of those negative soft skills
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  #157  
Old October 17, 2019, 08:39 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
^Thanks Zee, while you have a knack of writing and seems like that is your proven niche, I must say 90% of the time I get bored in the middle. No offense but I think you stretch redundantly abruptly fetching metaphors from diversified sectors, which might be okay for most readers.
Agree and I don't think its OK for most readers. His write up is very hard to follow
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  #158  
Old October 18, 2019, 11:56 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
I wrote it on my YouTube page. It is littered with expletives so hopefully it will auto-censor by the forum program. This was once my recent realization which I am sure and no doubt ToBeFair will appreciate.
That was a GREAT AWAKENING. Initially I did not read it.

Quote:
And yes, if you are wondering I did finally find peace after all afterwards. Just like Eminem said: "Once I stopped giving a f*** that's when things turned around."
I think I went thorough similar awakening - now I have become a thick skinned person who outwardly is emotionless (but has a great soft heart inside ).

One consequence of such awakening: say in my office or academia, what others say about my performance or what grade I get, it does not matter to me. If I am happy with my performance/learning, I will be happy. Praise or dispraise from people no longer affect me.

Another example: desi parents. Often we try very hard to please them only to be told how wonderful other's children are and how pathetic we are compared to them. But after that awakening, I am secure now. If I think that I have done my best and if I feel the sincerity in my heart with God, I can peacefully dispose/ignore all other opinions.
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  #159  
Old October 20, 2019, 05:09 PM
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Shingara Shingara is offline
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My realization of the day : It marley patkel khetey hoy. Patkel etodin vabtam cokctail boma!
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