Shortlist Test Seamers

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Subhashis Roy is way better than Taskin in tests, better control and gets wickets too Taskin has none.

Not true. If you add the dropped catches off Taskin's bowling, missed lbw reviews, and overall wicket taking ability Taskin would have better stats than Roy. What is Roy's biggest haul in Tests...2 for something? Its not like he's pulling in Anderson like hauls of 7 or 8 wickets in an innings.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
Issue in tests is you have no choice to take wickets if you want to win so you need wicket taking bowlers. It's the coaches job to take a bowler like taskin and teach him to sustain or improve his wicket taking ability but also improve his economy rate, line and length consistency etc.

Atm BD are in position where there aren't many wicket taking pacers at the test level.

Whilst a Roy or Shahid themselves won't contribute to that many wickets they provide better control than others and builds up pressure to allow others to take wickets

With a guy like rabbi he releases pressure, making a crap captains job even harder and makes other bowlers life more difficult

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
Whilst a Roy or Shahid themselves won't contribute to that many wickets they provide better control than others and builds up pressure to allow others to take wickets

With a guy like rabbi he releases pressure, making a crap captains job even harder and makes other bowlers life more difficult

There is a reason their averages are poor. Btw you are so against fast bowlers playing when they aren't ready physically so then you shouldn't be picking shahid who's barely played in the last 2 years or taskin who gets injured or fizz who's been injured but you pick these guys in your xi and/or squad double standards much, yes, it's evident very evident that when things suit what you want it's all good but when it doesn't it's fine to ridicule others.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
There is a reason their averages are poor. Btw you are so against fast bowlers playing when they aren't ready physically so then you shouldn't be picking shahid who's barely played in the last 2 years or taskin who gets injured or fizz who's been injured but you pick these guys in your xi and/or squad double standards much, yes, it's evident very evident that when things suit what you want it's all good but when it doesn't it's fine to ridicule others.

I am against it, hence you won't find one XI of late where I've included Shahid, I used him as an example of a style of bowler

Taskin has looked physically strong past year, he's shown he can last full test game e.g. he was bowling 90+ 27 overs in vs NZ, he's had quite a bit of international experience now, his process was slow, domestic - T20 - ODI - Test

Not - domestic - 1 T20 - Tests

As for mustafizur, I said it's too risky for him to play so much at that point (going back over a year) I said he'll pick up a serious injury, A lot said no chance... Guess what happened. That being said I would have debuted him this year anyway, because he's gone through the T20 - ODI - Test Progression

So tell me how is it double standard?

In fact go back enough and you'll see I was against Taskin debuting at an early age, same with Mustafizur, so in fact I've been very consistent with my thoughts

You look for arguments, when you have no logic to back it up, then you like to play victim when it gets pointed out.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
I am against it, hence you won't find one XI of late where I've included Shahid, I used him as an example of a style of bowler

Taskin has looked physically strong past year, he's shown he can last full test game e.g. he was bowling 90+ 27 overs in vs NZ, he's had quite a bit of international experience now, his process was slow, domestic - T20 - ODI - Test

Not - domestic - 1 T20 - Tests

As for mustafizur, I said it's too risky for him to play so much at that point (going back over a year) I said he'll pick up a serious injury, A lot said no chance... Guess what happened. That being said I would have debuted him this year anyway, because he's gone through the T20 - ODI - Test Progression

So tell me how is it double standard?

In fact go back enough and you'll see I was against Taskin debuting at an early age, same with Mustafizur, so in fact I've been very consistent with my thoughts

You look for arguments, when you have no logic to back it up, then you like to play victim when it gets pointed out.

You named fizz and taskin in your XI for SA a few days ago, you have shahid in you squad, they have all proven to be injury prone yet you pick them in your squad. It is a double standard when saifuddin is solid and injury free and you go after people who name him in there team and you do it on the basis of physical issues. If you can't see the double standard then I can't help you.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
You named fizz and taskin in your XI for SA a few days ago, you have shahid in you squad, they have all proven to be injury prone yet you pick them in your squad. It is a double standard when saifuddin is solid and injury free and you go after people who name him in there team and you do it on the basis of physical issues. If you can't see the double standard then I can't help you.

I did put those two in the squad, I never denied I didn't - 'hence you won't find one XI of late where I've included Shahid' - that's what I wrote

I put those two in the team, because I just explained taskin has proven he is physically solid, he hasn't picked up a injury in a while and he bowled well and strong in new Zealand before

As with Mustafizur, he's got lot of international experience now, he's bowled in many odis and T20s Saifuddin hasn't

As for Shahid, he's a risk, but as I explained in the other thread an injury to a guy approaching 30 won't stunt his growth, injury to a 20 year old will, if Shahid gets injured we won't be risking a future asset, with Saifuddin we would be

Saifuddin is injury free now, but so was mustafizur when he debuted, was i wrong when I said he's at risk of getting serious injury then... With hindsight obviously not. Give Saifuddin to Rahim and God forbid he does well, you're looking at a 25 over spell... From a guy who's bowled how many overs as his maximum in internationals before? 3 or 4 overs.

I never went after people who put Saifuddin in the team because of physical issues, I disagreed with the fact it was worth the risk to put him in the team, in case of an injury, this is a guy who's played next to no international cricket

Also I said mustafizur shouldn't debut when he did and his work load should be reduced, because he wasn't ready... He'll get injured, said the same thing for taskin - you can't deny I didn't say those things...am saying the same thing for Saifuddin who's at the stage the other two were a year or two ago...That's the exact same standard

You cannot deny there is a bigger risk of injury to Saifuddin if he debuts now vs in a years time, my argument the potential reward is not worth the risk... Same way I have done for the other two beforehand... That's the same standard

[Gowza]

You cannot prove there is a higher risk of saifuddin getting injured if he debut's now or in a year, that is speculation not fact. Each player is different.

What is fact is that taskin, fizz and shahid have had a period of injury in the last couple if years, that puts them at risk of injury just as much as saifuddin. Actually saifuddin hasn't had injuries so in that sense he's less of a risk because he's proven he is fit and healthy whereas the others have proven they are at risk of injury.

I'm only bringing it up because of you're issues with physical readiness.

As far as squad vs xi, all squad members need to be fit.

[tiger1000]

April 2015

Originally Posted by tiger1000
Name few Seam Bowlers, thats without mentioning greats, am talking about realistic Seam bowlers who bowled at 19 in a test Match.
...
Mushy will bowl him 20 overs +, same with Taskin, Taskin is a good year away from tests even then he should be limited to under 15-16 overs an innings, and Mustafiz is 2/3 years away yet, not strong enought build. Seriously this shows a lack of knowledge about cricket and the Human Body, he's far too young

September 2017

Originally Posted by tiger1000
Hopefully Saifuddin doesn't get selected, far too early for him.
...

Yep sure looks like double standards

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
You cannot prove there is a higher risk of saifuddin getting injured if he debut's now or in a year, that is speculation not fact. Each player is different.

What is fact is that taskin, fizz and shahid have had a period of injury in the last couple if years, that puts them at risk of injury just as much as saifuddin. Actually saifuddin hasn't had injuries so in that sense he's less of a risk because he's proven he is fit and healthy whereas the others have proven they are at risk of injury.

I'm only bringing it up because of you're issues with physical readiness.

As far as squad vs xi, all squad members need to be fit.

It's not speculation that a 22 year old is generally more solid than a 20 year old, am talking about same person here, that's basic knowledge that someone with your supposed knowledge and expertise should know

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
It's not speculation that a 22 year old is generally more solid than a 20 year old, am talking about same person here, that's basic knowledge that someone with your supposed knowledge and expertise should know

No because everyone is different and saifuddin is more solidly built than others, 22 is still young and still in that injury prone growing bracket so really if it's an issue for you you won't want anyone debuting before they turn 23/24.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
No because everyone is different and saifuddin is more solidly built than others, 22 is still young and still in that injury prone growing bracket so really if it's an issue for you you won't want anyone debuting before they turn 23/24.

Everyone is different hence when Mustafizur was early into the international scene, I said 2/3 years

Taskin was already in the international scene for a year and I said he still needs a further year at the very least, Saifuddin hasn't even entered international scene yet, he needs more T20s and ODI games, but even then I said he should wait another year

22 is young, but you're stronger at 22 than 20, at 22 he should be eased into the rotation of tests, I even now think mustafizur and taskin should be in rotation and I have said that recently, and no I don't think anyone should be a regular test bowler until they're 23/24 - we don't get enough test cricket for that to become an issue often

Saifuddin at 20 maybe stronger than Mustafizur at 20, but Saifuddin at 22, if handled right will most definitely be stronger than Saifuddin at 20, that's not 100% fact, nothing is until it happens, but it's the most logical prediction that he will be stronger down the line than he is now, he still has baby fat on him.

[Gowza]

And someone at 25 will be stronger than 23, stronger at 28 than 25 and that process continues until physical decline.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
And someone at 25 will be stronger than 23, stronger at 28 than 25 and that process continues until physical decline.

Not really, athletes peak and usually stay at a physical prime for few years, you may not be stronger at 28 than 25,doesn't mean you've started declining, athletes usually physically peak in mid 20's and stay there until early 30's

My point is there is no point risking Saifuddin now when there isn't much benefit in him debuting now, he has not shown he can do things significantly better than Roy, if he was mustafizur talented, then maybe, in my opinion he'll only be worth the physical risk when he can show he can significantly improve the team, right now, he adds 10 extra runs with the bat, but he's shown nothing to suggest he'll be an improvement to Roy

It's risk vs reward

Right now risk is there, reward not really there

Year down the line his risk will be slightly lower and most likely if he develops his reward will be higher

[Gowza]

You realise people keep training at their peak and still get stronger, you don't just hit a wall and stay at the same fitness level/strength. The 'peak' is the handful of years at your best but that doesn't mean you can't improve during that period.

Athletes times and records improve during their peak, they don't just plateau.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
You realise people keep training at their peak and still get stronger, you don't just hit a wall and stay at the same fitness level/strength. The 'peak' is the handful of years at your best but that doesn't mean you can't improve during that period.

Athletes times and records improve during their peak, they don't just plateau.

Only marginally though, you can tell difference in sports like 100M

Those slight margins aren't detectable in other sports where athletic ability isn't the only thing

My point was you saying you keep improving until you start declining isn't all that correct, because you can stay the same, doesn't mean you're declining

[BengaliPagol]

Roy bowled well in SL....

[DinRaat.]

Can someone explain to me this blind obession with Taskin Ahmed, the bowler gets hit all around and the park and is more interested in modelling than becoming a full-time cricketer. If he had a focused mindset he could of improved his game and become a genuine spearhead, but I don't think cricket is the first thing on his mind.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Can someone explain to me this blind obession with Taskin Ahmed, the bowler gets hit all around and the park and is more interested in modelling than becoming a full-time cricketer. If he had a focused mindset he could of improved his game and become a genuine spearhead, but I don't think cricket is the first thing on his mind.

1 - He backs opposition up better than anyone else we've got

2 - He produces many chances

3 - Has been the most unlucky bowler of recent times for bd with dropped catches, he's had more drops than catches off his bowling

4 - he's surprisingly shown stamina and endurance and never drops his head, even when he's poor.

Finish article... Not at all, but he's got talent and would have much better stats if we held onto his catches