Obama throws support behind controversial [Ground Zero] Islamic center

[Habib]

Originally Posted by Electrequiem
The douchebag Pastor will NOT burn the Quran, "not now, not ever." He is also considering a conversion to Islam.* What a drama queen.



*made up.

Agreed.

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by Habib
Pardon me for my lack of sarcasm sence, but was that a joke or is he really considering conversion to Islam? (surely not I guess)

I can't see any islamic center built on ground zero.

Oh dear Habib, I advise you think twice as long, about what you post, to put it delicately. I understand English is not your first language and neither do you watch English news channels (most likely), but come on man.

[Habib]

Originally Posted by Nafi
Oh dear Habib, I advise you think twice as long, about what you post, to put it delicately. I understand English is not your first language and neither do you watch English news channels (most likely), but come on man.

Dear Nafi, English is not my first language obviously. But I do watch English news channels. I was lazy when writing that

[bujhee kom]

I have some words for the right-wing hate mongers tea bagging shameless stupido ignorante scumbags, From the Arizona border to the Ground Zero - We the good lefties, open-minded, welcoming Americans the so-called 30% will fight the Islamophobe ignorante savage right-wing Islam hating, gay bashing, Mexican hating sickos and the Al-Quida, Taliban and all terroristas and that scum hate spreading Arizona governor the wicked witch of the desert, Hanity, Newt, O'Riely, Palin, Palladino, Bushies, Fox channel, KKK, Neo-Nazis simultaniously! We 30% good Americans are good enough and we shall fight zagainst the evil ingnorantes! What a shame! Jack-esses! Danilkka!

[Nafi]

[iDumb]

Nafi that's a good commentary and it's a shame that people have to be told the obvious.

General public is STUPID and sometimes it's better not to fight with stupidity. While Islamophobia, prejudice, hatred, racism etc are wrong, they exist and will exist forever and there is nothing you can do to change that.

Since a non-issue is made into a "fear mongering" news, I personally think the people in charge of making this community center should have backed out and built it somewhere else within that community. If there is still protest (most likely there would be but to a lesser extent), then you ignore them. This would at least have won you some broader support for Islam. The whole concept of this Islamic center was to build a good relationship between different faiths. Obviously, the PLAN has been destroyed by the negative media coverage. So I see no point in that community center now. The developers of that particular site are investors and they are purely after money. They don't care what's built there but this controversy is increasing the value of that property and they want that.

I don't see any reason why that particular place should be used. It has no significance what so ever. Muslims can pray anywhere (even on streets when the prayer time is on).

This is one of the reason why I wouldn't go to that site to do "protest" for the community center. Because I think both parties are stupid for getting riled up.

[deshifan]

ditto

Originally Posted by iDumb
This is one of the reason why I wouldn't go to that site to do "protest" for the community center. Because I think both parties are stupid for getting riled up.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Nafi that's a good commentary and it's a shame that people have to be told the obvious.

Since a non-issue is made into a "fear mongering" news, I personally think the people in charge of making this community center should have backed out and built it somewhere else within that community. If there is still protest (most likely there would be but to a lesser extent), then you ignore them.

I don't think that they should move the Islamic Community Center due to protest. Thats the kind of mentality that goes well in theocracy. The Constitution of USA is very specific and clear about discrimination against minorities based on their religious beliefs (or lack of). There is a reason you don't negotiate or back off from pursuing criminal/terrorists; regardless of the threats they throw at you. You only have to bend over once to the demands of this so called tea-party members and they will use this as an example that its OK to discriminate people based on their religion.

I strongly believe that if they back off, this will lead to much worse discrimination on minorities or other religious beliefs (specifically islam).

Originally Posted by iDumb
I don't see any reason why that particular place should be used. It has no significance what so ever. Muslims can pray anywhere (even on streets when the prayer time is on).

I don't think this particular place itself is important, it got important as soon as they started to make a big deal out of it. This is more than just discrimination towards islam. This is a "Dividing ideology" that the religious right of the republican party brings up to rile up their base almost every time there is an election going on. The idea is to ignite the "us versus them" mentality that republicans play so well.

Backing off now would deal a moral victory towards bigotry and discrimination for the religious right. As a matter of fact, backing off is the worst thing they could possibly do.

Also this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...87645#39087645

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah
There is a reason you don't negotiate or back off from pursuing criminal/terrorists; regardless of the threats they throw at you.

This analogy doesn't fit. Those opposing the Mosque aren't terrorists nor are they criminals. Listen man the destruction of WTC and rebuilding it "properly" has more emotion to it than many realize. Therefore emotional aspect of rebuilding this place should be given some thoughts. I already mentioned above that, you can listen but to certain extent. If there is opposition to mosque building let's say anywhere else, i wouldn't support ever backing away. But in this case (since it's made out to be a big deal), I personally don't think it wouldn't have hurt to move to a nearby location where no landing gear fell. Like I said, there would be protest then too but then people can't play the "ground zero" card. Then opposition to Mosque building would go down substantially in my opinion.

I strongly believe that if they back off, this will lead to much worse discrimination on minorities or other religious beliefs (specifically islam).

How exactly? You are backing off voluntarily. Your argument would be valid if we are talking about backing away from protesting our rights to build a mosque there when let's say our "permit for it is taken away" as opposed to protesting the protestors (what we are doing right now).

I don't think this particular place itself is important, it got important as soon as they started to make a big deal out of it. This is more than just discrimination towards islam. This is a "Dividing ideology" that the religious right of the republican party brings up to rile up their base almost every time there is an election going on. The idea is to ignite the "us versus them" mentality that republicans play so well.

Don't disagree. But this does little as counter arguments.

Backing off now would deal a moral victory towards bigotry and discrimination for the religious right. As a matter of fact, backing off is the worst thing they could possibly do.

I disagree. They should have backed away long ago but they didn't because they wanna make money not peace.

As a Muslim, I don't give a damn where I pray as long as I have a place of worship. The bad thing now will be that the new WTC (whatever the plan is) will not have a prayer room for Muslims because of this. Because that will be seen as a "mosque". Who are these developers?? I hate the fact that their actions reflect on the whole religion. There is something Muslims aren't doing right - I don't know what it is. And all Muslims backing anything Islam without much thoughts on the repercussions of it aren't doing much justice to themselves either. Maybe majority of Muslims should come out and do a protest to say hey let's build this thing two building away.

You don't see everybody calling Christians pedophiles because of some priests. Do I stop sending my kids to classes that are taught my Christians? No. What are they doing right?

[BANFAN]

Unnecessary politics. There is nothing religious about it, pure business for some indvidual.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
This analogy doesn't fit. Those opposing the Mosque aren't terrorists nor are they criminals. Listen man the destruction of WTC and rebuilding it "properly" has more emotion to it than many realize. Therefore emotional aspect of rebuilding this place should be given some thoughts.

.... and how does not building a religious place 2 blocks away from WTC has anything to do with the emotional feelings of the relatives of the death? Whats the ideal distance? 3.5 blocks? 2.6 miles? How far away from WTC would it be OK to build a islamic religious place (mosque or whatever)? How long should you wait till its not emotionally distressing anymore? 15 years? 20 years? 50 years?

This has nothing to do with emotional feelings, and has everything to do with xenophobia.

I don't think you really understand the implications of pointing fingers to a specific group of people and telling them what they can or cannot do because of their religious belief/skin color/sexual preference/language or what not.

USA constitution stands on the principle that you can not discriminate. End of story. Even if 299,999,999 of USA population is against an individual because of his or her religious belief (and assuming its not criminally illegal, like cutting babies up), and the constitution protects that individual even on the face of 99.99% disapproval and you should stand up for that individual's right to practice his/her belief.

You don't walk away because the discussion is inconvenient and uncomfortable. If they want to proudly proclaim their xenophobic views you should stand up and have that discussion instead of cowering away and hide and build a mosque somewhere else because you feel uncomfortable about it.

Not building a mosque there would be a moral victory for xenophobia, ignorance and intolerance.

As a non-believer I am willing to stand up for your right to worship where-ever the hell you want (within law) and you don't even have the balls to do it.

[Zeeshan]

I am sure but I don't like the idea of praying in street if it violates the law as much many muslims neighborhood wouldn't like bringing drug inducing Indian shamans near their kids because of due to religious rite of passage.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah
.... and how does not building a religious place 2 blocks away from WTC has anything to do with the emotional feelings of the relatives of the death? Whats the ideal distance? 3.5 blocks? 2.6 miles? How far away from WTC would it be OK to build a islamic religious place (mosque or whatever)? How long should you wait till its not emotionally distressing anymore? 15 years? 20 years? 50 years?

This has nothing to do with emotional feelings, and has everything to do with xenophobia.

Listen man, I am not gonna waste my time replying to you anymore. I gotta go. But at least have the decency to read what I wrote in its entirety before you reply. I have already answered your questions. Why did the developer feel that they don't need to talk to governor Paterson when he offered state land for the mosque? They rejected without even getting any details of the location. Why is that? MONEY buddy!

I don't disagree that it has to do with xenophobia or politics or whatever. But the original idea was to have some interfaith relationships. The plan is not gonna work now. So when the end goal of your project will not yield the result you want, you should seek alternate solutions.

No Muslims are dying to pray in that location. Like I said, all some Muslims are doing right now is protesting the protesters. No rights have been taken away from building that Mosque.

And good for you - you support right of all religion. Did my post anywhere sounded I don't?

[Blah]

As cliché as this might sound, you truly live by your name.