Saqlain set to be Tigers’ spin bowling coach

[Dilscoop]

Originally Posted by Kabir
For those of you questioning Saqlain's salary - consider the term "consultant" in his title. Folks who are dividing his number of days on job per year, to get the value of his "salary" don't have a clue on how consultants work.

Anyway - good to see Saqlain back. Our spin bowling department really needs experienced guys like him to get to the next level.

+ why are we whining about money? Are we any short of it? Is there any other place where this money would be better spent? Perhaps some KFC?

[jeesh]

Lol, KFC would be Akram Khans interest.

BCB should be having a surplus in their wage budget with no expensive Stuart Law or Pybus. 50K is a pretty big sum. Dav Whatmore used to earn this in 5-6 months. IPL has really inflated wages. Everybody's looking for short term stints. Not whining but if we are willing to spend so much on a consultant, i am surprised why we cant attract better coaches for the head coach role. From what i know Sri Lanka is paying Graham Ford between 12-14K USD plus facilities. Saqlain is netting 16 plus for his 3 months. I do like Shane Jurgensen, but someone with the experience of a Graham Ford will bring in a big change to Bangladeshi cricket. Maybe our guys cant negotiate, or they just dont want to live in Bangladesh.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
It is not Shane's fault when.....

Rubel got injured playing in BPL.

Shafiul almost had career ending injury against India (I have video clips of that incident if you want to see).

Abul Hasan Raju: a player rated by Mr Law is also has back injury.( I know he has not done anything special)

Nazmul Hossain: Don't get selected and when he does he gets injured.

Future prospect Taskin is already injured. (Bismillah bolber agei)

Mashrafee: injured his heel during BPL (hold on what heel, I thought its knees he was having trouble with, beside people only want to see him ODI and T20i)

Robiul: only good for test match but in Colombo he was struggling fitness wise, was off the field for long time.

Do we have anyone left.

Ooh Sajidul bachara he completely had to modify his action after his lower back injury. He can only bowl 125+k at this moment. Still good if he consistently bowls in right line and length. Only his first ever series (how) last two instance he went as a replacement. So I will watch him closely.

Have I missed anyone..

Alauddin Babu: I am average batsmen average bowler & ok fielder Hey I must be a good all rounder.

Sorry Babu we rated you highly when he toured UK. Where is your confidence bro.

Al Amin (pacer) after one good season now it's not happening IMHO.

Abu Jahed Rahi (sorry if I spelt it wrong): apparently my para boy that's what friends telling me. Still a long way to go but he is no Taskin.

Talha: What happened to you man. I thought you should have recovered by now.

Robin: one day I will fly away. BTW that was a big No Ball. He won't get away if he was playing international cricket.

We have player called Shubashis Roy: I saw him bowling once, bit different but fading away.

I completely forgot SRK: bazigor o bazigor tuhe bora Jadukor (not the moderator)
While all this looser fail he will continue to cash in and in .......

So if I am Shane the bowling coach I don't know what I will do.

Mr Pont solely worked with group of bowler and his 3 main bowlers Rubel,Shafiul & Nazmul has been injured most of Shane's tenure as Bowling coach.


I am coming to Bangladesh inshAllah and I will teach my son how to play cricket. He will not bowl spin, I can guarantee you that. And if by any chance any Tom Dick and Harry coach approaches him and says "tui pace bowling na kore spin ball kor". Then ( bleep bleep bleep.......) end.

Pace bowlers get injured due to lack of drills which makes them less fit and might change their action/rhythms they aren't supposed to be doing. Those drills are supposed to be under strict supervision of the coach. Merely bowling in the nets and matches isn't enough to keep them in that rhythm and away from injury.

If a pace bowling coach does his job well, still there may be injuries due to other reasons, but the number will reduce drastically. While physio, needs to know the kind of fitness necessary for the pacers. A general fitness training like every other player isn't good enough for them.

So a mass injury, definitely should raise that alarm. We look clueless at this moment, because we are just assuming that it's not his fault and I don't see any back up evidence to make that assumption..even a fit one isn't showing any improved performance and the planning part of the bowling unit is completely invisible during matches.

I don't see any reason to believe that SJ is doing enough as the bowling coach, if you see, please share.

[tiger1000]

dont really see shakib benefiting from him that much, maybe razzak but he is not a test bowler, biggest effect in my opinion will be on sohag gazi

[jeesh]

Why not buddy? Shakibs bowling is on the decline. Bowling a lot flatter, getting less turn. Some will say injury related, some will say too much of T20. Salahuddin had a very good impact on Shakib. Maybe Saqlain can also have a similar effect

[AsifTheManRahman]

Originally Posted by Kabir
For those of you questioning Saqlain's salary - consider the term "consultant" in his title. Folks who are dividing his number of days on job per year, to get the value of his "salary" don't have a clue on how consultants work.

I was going to say the same. He's on a short term contract, not the same as a permanent/longer term job.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Why not buddy? Shakibs bowling is on the decline. Bowling a lot flatter, getting less turn. Some will say injury related, some will say too much of T20. Salahuddin had a very good impact on Shakib. Maybe Saqlain can also have a similar effect

shakib has learnt most of what he can learn already, only thing he can improve on is his experience - that comes with more test matches, sure saqlain can help with shakib learning from his experiences better, but he still has to get those experiences, I feel shakib has reached his prime with his bowling, he has not hit his peak yet (i hope) but his peak wont be much better than what he is now, he currently averages around 32 (I think) with the bowl, i dont ever see it coming below 29 in tests.

His batting however I feel he is just reaching his prime and can improve quite a bit

[Dilscoop]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
shakib has learnt most of what he can learn already [...]

so many, many, maaany thing wrong with that statement, IDK where to start. Just

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Dilscoop
so many, many, maaany thing wrong with that statement, IDK where to start. Just

I just think he has reached his prime, dont think his peak will be much improvement from here, I never see shakib's average being less than 29 in test, ill be happy if i am wrong, but not so sure

[dark mage]

I don't think Saqib has reached anywhere near his peak in bowling yet as he himself said that if he focused more on his bowling he could be as good as Swan.

There are still so many things he could improve on and learn from Saqqi like how to turn the ball a lot more, learn more variations like the one that goes the "other way" which Saqib has been trying to invent for some time now and also can use Saqqi's help to read the batsman better.

Saqib himself said he was amazed to see when Ajmal came to seek advice on his bowling from Saqlain. In other words there is no end to learning, no one is perfect and a legendary, intelligent spinner like Saqlain can help Saqib become a better bowler definitely if saqib himself is willing to put in the extra hard work.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by dark mage
I don't think Saqib has reached anywhere near his peak in bowling yet as he himself said that if he focused more on his bowling he could be as good as Swan.

There are still so many things he could improve on and learn from Saqqi like how to turn the ball a lot more, learn more variations like the one that goes the "other way" which Saqib has been trying to invent for some time now and also can use Saqqi's help to read the batsman better.

Saqib himself said he was amazed to see when Ajmal came to seek advice on his bowling from Saqlain. In other words there is no end to learning, no one is perfect and a legendary, intelligent spinner like Saqlain can help Saqib become a better bowler definitely if saqib himself is willing to put in the extra hard work.

Swann is not that much better than Shakib, their on a similar level, Swann has the much better pace attack backing him up

Swann - average - 29, SR -60, 4 Wicket Hauls - 12 (24%) , 5- 14 (28%), in 50 matches swann takes 4/5 W in exactly 52 %

Shakib - average - 32, SR - 68, 4 WH- 4 (15%), 5 WH - 9 (34%), in 26 Matches - combined in 50% of the matches (adding decimals takes it over 50), he takes 4 or 5 W.

Like I said I can never see him being a player averaging less than 29 with the ball - i.e. never see him being that much better than Swann.

Also being an off spinner himself he is able to show more to players like ajmal and Gazi, with Shakib he can only advise

He is also appointed for 100 days I believe

[MohammedShamim]

@tiger 1000 can u please provide shakib's stats without including Zimbabwe,thanks

[Saifulsohel]

Originally Posted by King13
@tiger 1000 can u please provide shakib's stats without including Zimbabwe,thanks

then exclude murali's tally against zim & ban. Swan's tally against us also. Shakib played only 1 test against zim.got 4wk. Now what u want to say?

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

[jeesh]

Swann is a world class spinner battle tested against the best in the business in all types of wickets. You cant compare Shakib with him yet. And remember Swann has to compete for wickets with top quality pacers, while Shakib plays with the likes of Shahadat Hossain. So big difference.

Just because he is 26, doesnt mean he has to be at his prime. There is a lot more to learn. Look how Herath is evolving at 35. Herath has a variety of stock deliveries- carrom ball, one that goes the other way. There is a lot Shakib has to learn, unfortunately we have depended on him so much on him with both bat ball and captaincy his development has gone off course at least with the bowling. And too much of T20 has also hurt his game. He tries to bowl quicker through the air. Most of the time very predictable in his bowling. In his best days Shakib used to rely more on flight, turn and his arm ball. He wasnt afraid of giving the ball air. It just doesnt happen these days.

[Dilscoop]

Prime has nothing to do with age, has to do with form. Sachin hit his true best after WC07, breaking all kinda record @ mid-30.

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Swann is a world class spinner battle tested against the best in the business in all types of wickets. You cant compare Shakib with him yet. And remember Swann has to compete for wickets with top quality pacers, while Shakib plays with the likes of Shahadat Hossain. So big difference.

Just because he is 26, doesnt mean he has to be at his prime. There is a lot more to learn. Look how Herath is evolving at 35. Herath has a variety of stock deliveries- carrom ball, one that goes the other way. There is a lot Shakib has to learn, unfortunately we have depended on him so much on him with both bat ball and captaincy his development has gone off course at least with the bowling. And too much of T20 has also hurt his game. He tries to bowl quicker through the air. Most of the time very predictable in his bowling. In his best days Shakib used to rely more on flight, turn and his arm ball. He wasnt afraid of giving the ball air. It just doesnt happen these days.

that sums it all up for Shakibs current bowling situation.

[Mav]

First of all, Thanks of Allah. Takribaan char mahina Aur ??

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Swann is a world class spinner battle tested against the best in the business in all types of wickets. You cant compare Shakib with him yet. And remember Swann has to compete for wickets with top quality pacers, while Shakib plays with the likes of Shahadat Hossain. So big difference.

Just because he is 26, doesnt mean he has to be at his prime. There is a lot more to learn. Look how Herath is evolving at 35. Herath has a variety of stock deliveries- carrom ball, one that goes the other way. There is a lot Shakib has to learn, unfortunately we have depended on him so much on him with both bat ball and captaincy his development has gone off course at least with the bowling. And too much of T20 has also hurt his game. He tries to bowl quicker through the air. Most of the time very predictable in his bowling. In his best days Shakib used to rely more on flight, turn and his arm ball. He wasnt afraid of giving the ball air. It just doesnt happen these days.

I never said Shakib is better than Swann, simply said they are not that far apart

'Swann has to compete for wickets with top quality pacers' -

believe me any spinner would rather have a good pace attack over a poor one, When shakib comes in teams are 70/0 after 15 overs, Swann comes in against batsmen on the backfoot. English bowlers softened batsmen up and set them up over and over again, Shakib has to carry BD bowling attack. You will also get a chance to bowl at the tail enders quicker so your average and strike rate would be lower, if Shakib ever gets to the tail enders, he has already bowled 40+ overs, Also against BD, they can more easily defend shakib out and take 1 or 2 from each over, as they can target every other bowler, With England, you have to try to score against Swann, because Pace is also very good, there is no weak link they can target, in BD bowling attack the whole attack is Weak Link.


The reason he bowls flatter, because everyone else gets destroyed and if goes for runs aswell, the opponents will score over 400 in a day.

All this can change with the emergence of Gazi, who I can see becoming World Class, Shakib will have to bowl less and can actually have a bowling partnership

[jeesh]

I guess it can work both ways. Like you mentioned, how pacers put the batsmen on backfoot and allow Swann to capitalize. It can also be such that if we had other good wicket taking bowlers, Shakib would have less scalps than what he has now.

I dont quite agree with your reasoning over why he bowls flat. Shakib is not someone who holds back. Even with the bat, with 2-3 wickets down he ll come and attack. Its not in his nature to play defensively with ball or bat. KKR, BPL etc have actually done more damage to his game than good. In fact his mentor Salahuddin once mentioned T20 is really derailing our spinners including Shakib. T20 bowling mindset is evident even in ODI's and Tests. Shakib in his earlier years used to flight the ball a lot more, turn it more, and utilize his arm balls very effectively. Now everything seems like arm balls. Watch this clip, you ll know what i mean .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3b-RJVVU0

The guy is world class no doubt, and can achieve a lot more with the ball. We mustnt overuse him, depend on him solely to bail us out all the time. And perhaps SJ and Saqlain should have a good talk with him on how he can improve his bowling.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by jeesh
I guess it can work both ways. Like you mentioned, how pacers put the batsmen on backfoot and allow Swann to capitalize. It can also be such that if we had other good wicket taking bowlers, Shakib would have less scalps than what he has now.

I dont quite agree with your reasoning over why he bowls flat. Shakib is not someone who holds back. Even with the bat, with 2-3 wickets down he ll come and attack. Its not in his nature to play defensively with ball or bat. KKR, BPL etc have actually done more damage to his game than good. In fact his mentor Salahuddin once mentioned T20 is really derailing our spinners including Shakib. T20 bowling mindset is evident even in ODI's and Tests. Shakib in his earlier years used to flight the ball a lot more, turn it more, and utilize his arm balls very effectively. Now everything seems like arm balls. Watch this clip, you ll know what i mean .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3b-RJVVU0

The guy is world class no doubt, and can achieve a lot more with the ball. We mustnt overuse him, depend on him solely to bail us out all the time. And perhaps SJ and Saqlain should have a good talk with him on how he can improve his bowling.

Am willing to say I might be wrong on why Shakib is bowling more flat, could also simply be form.

But just no, I dont see how anyone who has ever played cricket or watched it for years, can say that (in bold), It is a ridiculous thing to say, the difference between teams like BD and england is like this, Swann comes on to ball when its 80/2, shakib comes on when its 80/0 - sure he has more wickets he can get on paper, but these batsmen would be set, new batsmen coming in would simply defend out shakibs bowling or take a single to give the more set batsmen the strike to face shakib, then he will simply get himself in, batting against our useless bum of Seam bowlers.


It simply does not work both way, it only works when they are playing very poor teams, where the seam attack can simply rip through the batting line up, but against most teams, thats not how it works, seam bowlers usually take the top at most (top 3).

Shakib has to come in and bowl to set batsmen, once he gets them out he'll get a chance at a new batsman, but by the time it will take him to get the original batter out, he would fatigue.

[jeesh]

Lol. Buddy did i offend you so much for such a harsh reply?

You think Kapil Dev was so good, to get 434 wickets? He was good no doubt, but he was often India's sole warrior with the ball, which allowed him to pick up so many wickets. Unlike say Glen McGrath, Kapil didnt have to compete with a Warne or McGill or Lee or Fleming or Gillespie. When you are the strike bowler and there arent any other bowlers near your ability you are bound to pick up wickets. Thats what i meant-when i said not fair to compare Swann and Shakibs figures

Fortunately or unfortunately Shakib hasnt had much competition from other bowlers. So naturally he will pick up more wickets. Regarding your concept of set batsmen, what about tests?

Anyway i am not a Swann supporter. I want to see Shakib double his tally of wickets. So lets talk about how he can.

In all seriousness Shakib has the ability to score 10,000 ODI runs and pick 400 plus wickets. It will really elevate him to legendary status. Not sure about tests because we dont play enough of it.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Lol. Buddy did i offend you so much for such a harsh reply?

You think Kapil Dev was so good, to get 434 wickets? He was good no doubt, but he was often India's sole warrior with the ball, which allowed him to pick up so many wickets. Unlike say Glen McGrath, Kapil didnt have to compete with a Warne or McGill or Lee or Fleming or Gillespie. When you are the strike bowler and there arent any other bowlers near your ability you are bound to pick up wickets. Thats what i meant-when i said not fair to compare Swann and Shakibs figures

Fortunately or unfortunately Shakib hasnt had much competition from other bowlers. So naturally he will pick up more wickets. Regarding your concept of set batsmen, what about tests?

Anyway i am not a Swann supporter. I want to see Shakib double his tally of wickets. So lets talk about how he can.

In all seriousness Shakib has the ability to score 10,000 ODI runs and pick 400 plus wickets. It will really elevate him to legendary status. Not sure about tests because we dont play enough of it.

Am not sure if it was a joke on your part, but am not really offended at all, just disagree with you.

Kapil Dev example is not really a good one to be honest with you, we are talking about spinners here, Fast bowlers bowl (usually) much before the spinners, so they have the chance to make the first impression. Also Kapil took a wicket at 30 runs, meaning he wasnt that good at the time, he just played alot (near 150 I believe), so that will be what 1.5 wickets per innings

What do you mean by 'what about test' I am talking about test, scoring runs helps you settle in, even in test batsmen look to score, its easier to score, when you have shahadat bowling at you.

Believe me any spin bowler would rather have, Anderson, Broad, Finn bowling ahead of you over Shahadat, Rubel, Robiul.

10000 runs is a push, he 3500 in about 120 games and 6 years, say if has 10 years left

20 x 10 = 200 Odi Games

say he averages 40 (including his batting peak and eventual inevitable decline, I think thats about right)

from 200 ODI games, he wont always bat, say 180 games

180 x 40 = 7200 runs (I think), so thats 10,500 runs but, he has not really been injured all that lot and add to that increase in T20 decrease in ODI's he might not even play 200 games.

To get 10000+ runs everything has to go right in his career - it hardly ever does

Bowling

he has 160w so thats like 1.3 wickets

So 180 games x 1.3 = 230, so that will be 390 wickets,

So everything is a bit tight in him gettin 400 + wickets and over 10000 runs

One thing I have found that I spend too much time on cricinfo, that I roughly remember all this stats

(Disclaimer: these are rough estimates i.e. he might not be on 160w or 3500 runs exact - but it is pretty close, that I know (I know its a bit sad))

[jeesh]

Also more probability you will get more wickets when you have mediocre bowlers like Shahadat ;-)

Wickets will fall, whether batsmen are settled or not. Test, ODI, T20. The way you speak its as if batsmen are unbeatable when they are settled.

Anyway enough said. Lets talk about Saqlain, not Swann Vs Shakib.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Also more probability you will get more wickets when you have mediocre bowlers like Shahadat ;-)

Wickets will fall, whether batsmen are settled or not. Test, ODI, T20. The way you speak its as if batsmen are unbeatable when they are settled.

Anyway enough said. Lets talk about Saqlain, not Swann Vs Shakib.

I wish, man we need to get these guys out for under 150 to stand a chance here, not going to happen

[jeesh]

It might be very difficult to save this one.