Boxing

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
It indeed is subjective. I always look for form too,when coming up with P4P lists. Just because a fighter starts their boxing career late, doesn't mean their early performances shouldn't indicate a P4P contention, even though they are not as experienced.

Yes,it was hard to leave out Marquez. Perhaps he takes Klitshko's place because the competition at the heavyweight division is at its weakest. It was also very difficult to leave out Broner.

Marquez knocked out pacquiao, knocked him out, you have manny at 5.

anyway, one of the best trainer in the world Robert Garcia

10 min reality show - Elli Seckbach

Episode 1



Playlist for all the episodes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyJ0...AD803266666667

[tiger1000]

Guillermo Rigondeaux put in a masterclass vs Nonito Donaire, a P4P top fighter

My Scorecard - 117-110 Nonito Donaire, he seemed to not really follow a game plan, was throwing only single shots, also no jabs were being thrown from nonito

Rigondeaux (12-0, 8 knockouts) put on a clinic from the very start. The two-time Olympic gold medalist showed his supreme technical skills. He was patient in his counterpuncher role and landed some nice stinging overhand lefts – one staggered Donaire early in the first round – and he punctuated the frame with a solid right hook. He controlled the fight with his ring generalship throughout.

Nonito upped his game in the 10^th round when he was able to tie-up Rigondeaux on the inside, use his right forearm to create space, and unloaded with a massive left hook that dropped Rigondeaux to the seat of his pants.

Rigondeaux beat referee Benjy Esteves’ count, took a bow, and weathered the oncoming Donaire storm. Donaire connected on several more hard shots, but Rigondeaux got his bearings back and began to land some nice counters of his own and took control again.

[tiger1000]

P4P list

1. Juan M. Marquez - 55-6-1, 40 KOs

2. Floyd Mayweather - 43-0, 26 KOs

3. Guillmermo Rigondeaux - 12-0-0, 8 KOs



4. Andre Ward - 26-0-0,14 KOs



5. Sergio Martinez - 50-2-2, 28KOs



6. Nonito Donaire - 30-2, 19KOs



7. Wladimir Klitschko - 59-3-0 50 KOs



8. Manny Pacquiao - 54-5-2, 38KOs



9. Carl Froch - 30-0-2, 22KOs



10. Timothy Bradley - 29-0,12KOs

[Roey Haque]

I told you Rigo was p4p worthy. And so is Lara, just wait for him to fight the likes of Canelo or Trout. He might cause an upset.

[Roey Haque]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
Marquez knocked out pacquiao, knocked him out, you have manny at 5.

I don't make p4p lists in terms of just KO power. Pacquiao was ahead on the rounds before he got KOed. And overall, he really had nothing to prove being in the ring with Marquez the 4th time. He won the first two matches in my eyes. (the 1st draw was disgraceful), and got a gift in the 3rd fight which he really lost. Still 2-1 ahead coming into that fight. And still he was getting the better of Marquez, before getting KOed.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I told you Rigo was p4p worthy. And so is Lara, just wait for him to fight the likes of Canelo or Trout. He might cause an upset.

never denied, that, I thought Rigo was a top P4P in terms of ability, just didnt fight anyone, needed this victory to be ranked, you just cant get ranked without fighting anyone good, same with Lara, he hasnt beaten anyone

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I don't make p4p lists in terms of just KO power. Pacquiao was ahead on the rounds before he got KOed. And overall, he really had nothing to prove being in the ring with Marquez the 4th time. He won the first two matches in my eyes. (the 1st draw was disgraceful), and got a gift in the 3rd fight which he really lost. Still 2-1 ahead coming into that fight. And still he was getting the better of Marquez, before getting KOed.

Sorry but am not getting your logic, JMM won because of skill in counter punching not KO power, manny has far more KO power. Vitali klitchsko was ahead vs Lewis, 4 rounds to 2, doesnt mean he won the fight. Its a ridiculous thing to say, khan was beating Garcia on the rounds, before he got taken out.

He had a lot to prove, many so JMM winning all 3 fights, I personally had it 2-0-1, with last one being a draw, they were all 50/50 fights

I had first one 113-112 Pac, 2nd - 114-113 pac, 3rd 114-114, 4th i had Manny up 47-46 i believe or 48-46, but he lost, its a 12 round fight, he lost half way through it

[Roey Haque]

Originally Posted by tiger1000

I had first one 113-112 Pac, 2nd - 114-113 pac, 3rd 114-114, 4th i had Manny up 47-46 i believe or 48-46, but he lost, its a 12 round fight, he lost half way through it

I had 1st one 114-110 to Pac, 2nd one 115-112 to Pac, 3rd one 115-113 to Marquez,4th one 48-45 to Pac.

By the way, that 4th fight was the toughest match to score. I was splitting my hair just trying to score each round. Thank God Marquez KOed him,otherwise the scores could have been 120-108 in either direction! LOL

The 3rd fight was the easiest to score. Yes the final score was close. But it was so clear who won each round.

[Roey Haque]

How did you score Trout-Canelo?

I thought Trout was robbed. Yes scoring is subjective, but I will be not apologetic for how I score as I've been scoring them a long time and most of the time my card is identical or very similar to Harold Lederman.(not saying he is the best, but much better than the judges ringside)
I had it 117-110 for Trout.

Face touches or grazes are also effective punches,people forget this. Trout outlanded Canelo with his jabs almost every round. Defense, ring generalship and aggressiveness don't even come into question because of how much Trout touched Canelo. And in any case, if you can prove one of those factors in favor of Canelo, I can easily prove another of those factors in favor of Trout. Anyway, in a one sided fight like this, those shouldn't even matter.

Terrible commentating by showtime( having Canelo ahead), terrible broadcasting(just showing all of Canelo's punches), terrible judges obviously, and last but not least terrible fans who just ride the most popular bandwagon and don't trust their eyes.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
How did you score Trout-Canelo?

I thought Trout was robbed. Yes scoring is subjective, but I will be not apologetic for how I score as I've been scoring them a long time and most of the time my card is identical or very similar to Harold Lederman.(not saying he is the best, but much better than the judges ringside)
I had it 117-110 for Trout.

Face touches or grazes are also effective punches,people forget this. Trout outlanded Canelo with his jabs almost every round. Defense, ring generalship and aggressiveness don't even come into question because of how much Trout touched Canelo. And in any case, if you can prove one of those factors in favor of Canelo, I can easily prove another of those factors in favor of Trout. Anyway, in a one sided fight like this, those shouldn't even matter.


Terrible commentating by showtime( having Canelo ahead), terrible broadcasting(just showing all of Canelo's punches), terrible judges obviously, and last but not least terrible fans who just ride the most popular bandwagon and don't trust their eyes.

1 - Trout - Won the fight with Jab, straight to the body, Won on Workrate

2 - Canelo - Landed better punches, Better Combination

3 - Trout - Outboxed Canelo, good movement

4 - Canelo - Landed the better punches won a even round towards the end

5 - Trout - Won simply on workrate, threw alot of nothing punches - Close round

6 - Canelo - Trout had workrate on his side, but Alvarez landed enough clean punches to even it up, won the round on Defence - Close round

7 - Canelo - 10-8, better punches + KD

8 - Trout - outjabbed and outworked S.A

9 - Canelo - Both men exchanged good punches, Canelo with the cleaner punches, again better defence

10- Trout - outworked Canelo, Canelo with the better punches, but in this round Quantity>Quality

11- Canelo - Landed the better punches, Outboxed Trout, seemed to stun him towards the end aswell

12- Trout - outworked Canelo


Total 114 - 113 - Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, although close on the cards, I only see one winner and that is Alvarez, He landed the better punches, showed better Defence and offence. Trout simply had workrate on his side. Trout Even admitted he lost to the better man and he did. No way did Trout win that fight.

Alvarez won 5 clear rounds, Trout won 5, 2 were close, I gave them 1 Each (just the way it turned out)

Face touches or grazes are also effective punches - Am going have to correct, they dont, thats not a subjective thing, thats just something you have got wrong, effective punches are clean punches, if any connects were the case, Joe Calzaghe would have never lost a round.

This fight was anything but One sided, for either fighter.

Ring generalship - Canelo controlled where the fight took place, he decided if was going to fight off the ropes or in the center of the ring.

Defence, is not simply about not getting hit - thats amateur style scoring, in the pro ranks, defence includes the actual punches, Trout simply did not land anything of significance in the whole fight, Canelo had the superior defence - as Trout admitted in The post fight conference. JMM is seen as having a great defence, check his punch states because he has been hit quite a few times. James toney, his defence is seen as an ATG, but he also gets clipped, but that only leads to hard counter shots in return

You are ranking work rate too highly, 1 solid punch > 3 grazed punches, I have been in the ring, let me tell you I rather take 5 grazing punches than 1 solid clean punch.

Also remember Canelo did not try his hardest, He was so far ahead on the judges scorecards he didnt need to win the rounds - Thats why I hat open Scoring. Judges had the fight wrong, but neither fighter won by more than a point.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I had 1st one 114-110 to Pac, 2nd one 115-112 to Pac, 3rd one 115-113 to Marquez,4th one 48-45 to Pac.

By the way, that 4th fight was the toughest match to score. I was splitting my hair just trying to score each round. Thank God Marquez KOed him,otherwise the scores could have been 120-108 in either direction! LOL

The 3rd fight was the easiest to score. Yes the final score was close. But it was so clear who won each round.

3rd fight - JMM was clearly the better fighter, but just the way scoring is, I had it 6-4 JMM going into the last round, he just gave away the fight in my opinion

[Roey Haque]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
1 - Trout - Won the fight with Jab, straight to the body, Won on Workrate

2 - Canelo - Landed better punches, Better Combination

3 - Trout - Outboxed Canelo, good movement

4 - Canelo - Landed the better punches won a even round towards the end

5 - Trout - Won simply on workrate, threw alot of nothing punches - Close round

6 - Canelo - Trout had workrate on his side, but Alvarez landed enough clean punches to even it up, won the round on Defence - Close round

7 - Canelo - 10-8, better punches + KD

8 - Trout - outjabbed and outworked S.A

9 - Canelo - Both men exchanged good punches, Canelo with the cleaner punches, again better defence

10- Trout - outworked Canelo, Canelo with the better punches, but in this round Quantity>Quality

11- Canelo - Landed the better punches, Outboxed Trout, seemed to stun him towards the end aswell

12- Trout - outworked Canelo


Total 114 - 113 - Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, although close on the cards, I only see one winner and that is Alvarez, He landed the better punches, showed better Defence and offence. Trout simply had workrate on his side. Trout Even admitted he lost to the better man and he did. No way did Trout win that fight.

Alvarez won 5 clear rounds, Trout won 5, 2 were close, I gave them 1 Each (just the way it turned out)

Face touches or grazes are also effective punches - Am going have to correct, they dont, thats not a subjective thing, thats just something you have got wrong, effective punches are clean punches, if any connects were the case, Joe Calzaghe would have never lost a round.

This fight was anything but One sided, for either fighter.

Ring generalship - Canelo controlled where the fight took place, he decided if was going to fight off the ropes or in the center of the ring.

Defence, is not simply about not getting hit - thats amateur style scoring, in the pro ranks, defence includes the actual punches, Trout simply did not land anything of significance in the whole fight, Canelo had the superior defence - as Trout admitted in The post fight conference. JMM is seen as having a great defence, check his punch states because he has been hit quite a few times. James toney, his defence is seen as an ATG, but he also gets clipped, but that only leads to hard counter shots in return

You are ranking work rate too highly, 1 solid punch > 3 grazed punches, I have been in the ring, let me tell you I rather take 5 grazing punches than 1 solid clean punch.

Also remember Canelo did not try his hardest, He was so far ahead on the judges scorecards he didnt need to win the rounds - Thats why I hat open Scoring. Judges had the fight wrong, but neither fighter won by more than a point.

Thanks for that lengthy explanation. Especially that round by round break down.

You will have noticed that Trout had good defense too, throughout the match, getting caught only when exchanging, not on the outside. Even that jab that knocked him down was in a exchange. But of course Canelo had more opportunities to show off his defense, because Trout was just throwing that many jabs! You go out there with that strategy, to totally outvolume the other guy with jabs,so that you pull ahead in volume despite a poor conversion rate, then I give you credit for that strategy.

Also Canelo was aggressive, but for every bit of aggression, I saw Trout changing his angles on him at each corner, thus turning him beautifully. This should count as ring general ship.

I stick to my scorecard of 117-110 for Trout. I gave rounds 8 and 11 to Canelo. And the 7th round was a 9-9 round to me , as I saw Trout coming back strongly after that knock down. And I see you gave the 8th round to Trout, which just goes to show how subjective this whole judging business is.

I will concede one thing though. I was very surprised to see the compubox stats at the end of the fight at how efficient Canelo was with his punching. The guy simply doesn't waste any punches! And the numbers matched up pretty evenly, but I think compubox doesn't count face touches or it shouldn't have been that close.

To me planting the glove on the face without sinking it in and retracting it, is very noble. Good way to rack up points without giving the other guy brain hemorrhage for life. I reward it highly.

Of course harder punches should carry heavier influence, but only when done in a sufficient volume like all of Marquez's punches against Manny. From what I saw, Canelo simply wasn't throwing $hit! He was landing though when he threw,but that's not the point. His inactivity cost him the match, in my humble eyes.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
Thanks for that lengthy explanation. Especially that round by round break down.

You will have noticed that Trout had good defense too, throughout the match, getting caught only when exchanging, not on the outside. Even that jab that knocked him down was in a exchange. But of course Canelo had more opportunities to show off his defense, because Trout was just throwing that many jabs! You go out there with that strategy, to totally outvolume the other guy with jabs,so that you pull ahead in volume despite a poor conversion rate, then I give you credit for that strategy.

Also Canelo was aggressive, but for every bit of aggression, I saw Trout changing his angles on him at each corner, thus turning him beautifully. This should count as ring general ship.

I stick to my scorecard of 117-110 for Trout. I gave rounds 8 and 11 to Canelo. And the 7th round was a 9-9 round to me , as I saw Trout coming back strongly after that knock down. And I see you gave the 8th round to Trout, which just goes to show how subjective this whole judging business is.

I will concede one thing though. I was very surprised to see the compubox stats at the end of the fight at how efficient Canelo was with his punching. The guy simply doesn't waste any punches! And the numbers matched up pretty evenly, but I think compubox doesn't count face touches or it shouldn't have been that close.

To me planting the glove on the face without sinking it in and retracting it, is very noble. Good way to rack up points without giving the other guy brain hemorrhage for life. I reward it highly.

Of course harder punches should carry heavier influence, but only when done in a sufficient volume like all of Marquez's punches against Manny. From what I saw, Canelo simply wasn't throwing $hit! He was landing though when he threw,but that's not the point. His inactivity cost him the match, in my humble eyes.

No one does that by choice. Canelo also dropped trout with a straight right hand, compuboxes counts anything that makes contact - that is why it has been criticised heavily in the boxing industry, if it counted the Significant punches then Canelo would be far ahead on the punches. For a fighter to get a 9-9 round with being knocked down he has to have complete control of the round, then a flash Knockdown, it was an even round even if trout slightly edged it it still is a 10-8 round to canelo



go to round 7 - (taking away the point deduction), and counting the KD like it should have been, that is a 9-9 round

[tiger1000]

Night of Boxing

Wladimir Klitschko vs Francesco Pianeta

Wladimir Klitschko dropped (X3) and stopped Francesco Pianeta in the sixth round Saturday night to retain the WBA and IBF heavyweight titles.

The Ukrainian was never troubled by Pianeta, finishing off the previously unbeaten Italian southpaw with a right-left combination. Pianeta stayed down before attempting to continue, but there was no point in delaying the inevitable and referee Ernie Sharif ended the bout 2:52 into the round.

"Francesco tried. He has a fighting heart," Klitschko said. "He's a positive example in boxing. I'm sure he's learned a lot and that he has a great future ahead of him."


The 37-year-old Klitschko improved to 60-3 after his 52nd knockout, while Pianeta dropped to 28-1-1.


Abner Mares vs Ponce De Leon


Mares won his third world title in as many weight classes in the past three years, going through the bantamweight, junior featherweight and now featherweight divisions to claim world titles.
Mares (26-0-1, 14 KOs), the quicker and more accurate fighter, landed a sizzling right hand just before the second round ended to drop Ponce De Leon, a southpaw, hard. He beat the count and the round ended. Mares rocked Ponce De Leon again with a right hand at the end of the third round.


The fight was all Mares. Although Ponce De Leon had a few brief moments in the middle rounds, Mares -- who dedicated the fight to his father, who recently had a stroke -- was never in trouble and he ended it impressively in the ninth.


"I had to mix it up. I had multiple game plans; he only had one game plan," Mares said. "We mixed it up and he got confused. He never hurt me with the left. He hit me with the left a lot. It's a learning experience. I demonstrated a more poised Abner."

Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

After a quite first round, which floyd controlled Guerrero attempted to assert himself in the second round, pinning Mayweather on to the ropes with a series of well-timed blows with his left.

But Mayweather's class was evident in the next round as he landed some damaging blows himself, and he continued to set the tempo while keeping his compatriot's brief attacks at bay.


Mayweather looked comfortable over the last third of the fight, picking off Guerrero almost at will as his superior speed and movement told.


Mayweather was barely marked as he finished the bout with a 60% success rate with his power punches while handing Guerrero only his second defeat of his 33-fight professional career.


Mayweather was masterful at times, landing thudding right hands and bloodying Guerrero's face in a performance that mimicked some of his best fights. Mayweather hurt Guerrero on several occasions, including a series of right hands near the end of the eighth round that buckled Guerrero's knees.


All three judges scored the bout 117-111. The Associated Press had it 119-109.


My Prediction: Mayweather 118-110, I scored the fight 119-109 with Guerrero winning round 2, there was 2 close rounds, but the judges somehow managed to find 3 to give to Robert, Floyd Dominated 10 rounds of this fight.


Mayweather Improves to 44-0 26 KOs, Guerrero Drops to 31-2-1

[tiger1000]

P4P list

1.Floyd Mayweather - 44-0, 26 KOs

2. Juan M. Marquez - 55-6-1, 40 KOs

3. Guillmermo Rigondeaux - 12-0-0, 8 KOs



4. Andre Ward - 26-0-0,14 KOs



5. Sergio Martinez - 51-2-2, 28 KOs



6. Nonito Donaire - 30-2, 19 KOs


7. Wladimir Klitschko - 60-3-0, 51 KOs



8. Manny Pacquiao - 54-5-2, 38 KOs



9. Carl Froch - 30-0-2, 22 KOs



10. Abner Mares 26-0-1, 14 KOs



Mayweather jumps to number 1, dropping Marquez to number 2, Mares replaces Bradley at the list, Martinez retains his position after struggling to a debatable decision against Martin Murray

[Roey Haque]

Lucas Mattyhse annihilates Lamont Peterson last Saturday. This was special because at this high level, it is uncommon for one boxer to destroy another so quickly and so convincingly. Mattyhse is now expected to fight Danny Garcia for the unofficial tag of the best 140 pounder out there.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque


Lucas Mattyhse annihilates Lamont Peterson last Saturday. This was special because at this high level, it is uncommon for one boxer to destroy another so quickly and so convincingly. Mattyhse is now expected to fight Danny Garcia for the unofficial tag of the best 140 pounder out there.

100% agree, I was expecting a 50/50 fight, damn was I wrong, that was anything but close, lucas beats LP 99/100.

at 140

Champion - Danny Garcia
1 - Lucas Mathysse
2- Amir Khan
3- Lamont Peterson
4- Mike Alvarado
5- Zab Judah

I favour Mathhysse in garcia fight I see it as a 70/30 in favour of Lucas, winner gets Floyd fight

--------------------------------------

The first time around, it was Kessler, fighting in his home country of Denmark, who won a tight unanimous decision to win one of the 168-pound world titles.
Three years later, with both holding alphabet belts this time, they met again. This time it was on Froch's British turf at the sold-out O2 Arena in London, which rocked with more than 18,000 as they battled once again.


But this time it was Froch, who despite being a year older than the 34-year-old Kessler, looked like the fresher fighter. He looked like the better fighter. He looked like the hungrier fighter. He was the more physical fighter. And he certainly was the far busier fighter.


It all added up to a unanimous decision victory for Froch, who unified two titles and avenged one of his two career defeats. It wasn't as good as their first but still an outstanding fight, froch utilized his jab and an ageing kessler could not match Froch's workrate.


Froch in a UD retains IBF & takes WBA belt - Scores were 118-110. 116-112, 115-113, I had it 116-112. Anything between a 117-111-115-113 was a good score.


at 175


Champion - Ward
1 - Froch
2 - Kessler
3 - Bute

4 - Stieglitz
5 - Bika

[tiger1000]

1.Floyd Mayweather - 44-0, 26 KOs

2. Juan M. Marquez - 55-6-1, 40 KOs

3. Guillmermo Rigondeaux - 12-0-0, 8 KOs



4. Andre Ward - 26-0-0,14 KOs



5. Sergio Martinez - 51-2-2, 28 KOs



6. Nonito Donaire - 30-2, 19 KOs


7. Wladimir Klitschko - 60-3-0, 51 KOs




8. Carl Froch - 31-0-2, 22 KOs



9. Manny Pacquiao - 54-5-2, 38 KOs




10. Abner Mares 26-0-1, 14 KOs

[Zeeshan]

Boring fight. I was on same page as Denzel (yeah surprise!) that it would be knockout esp. from Mayweather.

Btw, Tiger one thousand er kono khobor nai

[G-man]

mayweather v pac was pretty underhwelming.

[Tigers_eye]

7. Wladimir Klitschko - 60-3-0, 51 KOs

[BengaliPagol]

mayweather was too quick and much smarter.