**** The Mohammed Ashraful Thread ****

[zsayeed]

^ I expected better of you - ad hominems are not logic. There are more ODI wins - the sample space is larger - and the wins were under normal circumstances. The Central Limit Theorem holds due to the Weak Law of large Numbers.

[zman]

^ Although I see your point here, in One World's defense, his sample size of 8 test matches or 16 innings (8 out of 75 test matches = 11%) isn't statistically much different from your sample size of 22 ODI innings (out of 179 ODIs = 12%). Maybe that's why our team is better of without him until he demonstrates real consistency and not just one or two fluke innings every now and then.

[BengaliPagol]

By looking at his stats anyone would say he is not good enough for international cricket. Thats where we should leave it at. He is simply not good enough.

[BrianLara7]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
By looking at his stats anyone would say he is not good enough for international cricket. Thats where we should leave it at. He is simply not good enough.

How dare you... we fail to win a single match when Ashraful isn't playing. That's why we lost to India and SL in Asia cup, lost ODI series against WI at home, couldn't whitewash NZ in ODI series. Ashraful is the greatest cricketer BD ever produced.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by BrianLara7
How dare you... we fail to win a single match when Ashraful isn't playing. That's why we lost to India and SL in Asia cup, lost ODI series against WI at home, couldn't whitewash NZ in ODI series. Ashraful is the greatest cricketer BD ever produced.

blind loving isn't good, blind hatred aint good either

[i_1_primeval_man]

Originally Posted by One World
You seem to be a very new fan of cricket who generally twist things to their liking using false logic and reasons. Well here is something a 12 year old will know, you are putting stats on ODI wins but the same thing for test is not digestive enough.

I rest my case.

I wouldn't give much importance to anyone's logic and reason regaridng Bangladesh cricket who had to discover Aminul Islam Bulbul very recently through Cricinfo search. This clearly shows some fans are really new in following Bangladesh cricket. I'm not saying that makes them any less of a fan or their love for Bd cricket is questionable, but one has to put things into perspectives while having a discussion with the new fans. Surely the new fans haven't come across the many interviews where Ashraful had blamed Whatmore, Siddons and Selectors in different phases of his career. Heck, he once blamed the presence of camera for the added pressure. I think he said that when he was asked why he was successful in domestic cricket and not in international cricket, but all of these are made up stories to the new fans.

[zsayeed]

Originally Posted by zman
^ Although I see your point here, in One World's defense, his sample size of 8 test matches or 16 innings (8 out of 75 test matches = 11%) isn't statistically much different from your sample size of 22 ODI innings (out of 179 ODIs = 12%). Maybe that's why our team is better of without him until he demonstrates real consistency and not just one or two fluke innings every now and then.

Yes but those 8 tests were under dubious political or weather curtailed situations.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Um yes you could, especially when you couple it with his average. Hand eye co-ordination doesn't translate into aggression - although most batsmen who have it are aggressive. For eg: Collingwood, poor technique, but great eye.

All international level players have great eyes relative to average human. An average person would struggle to get wood to leather as soon as the rock is coming even at a medium pace of 70 mph. And even top associate teams like Afhganistan and Ireland have at least one or two 85 mph bowlers.

You suggested that he only possesses or uses or relies on HEC. If this was the case, the majority of his runs would be scored via boundaries, because you don't need or use HEC to nudge the ball around, no matter what kind of bowling you face or pitch you're batting on. Its pointless to use ODIs with all its powerplay chances and field differences between openers and middle order bats, so lets look at Tests which are far more uniform. As it is, Sir Ash scores 55% of his Test runs from boundaries.

As exmaples:

Sehwag 64%
Tamim 59%
Gayle 66%
Dilshan 52%

By comparison, Collingwood has 47% indicating that he was player who most probably did not rely on HEC to score his runs, no matter how shoddy his technique might have been.

And by footwork, I mean vs pacers obviously rather. And oh, you could dominate Murali without any footwork - Sehwag did, Gambhir did too off the top of my head - Sehwag especially is known for his pathetic footwork.

Sehwag and Gambhir are generally regarded to be pretty good players, with career averages around 50. Ashraful averaged nearly twice his career average against Murali, give or take. I'll admit his footwork against pace was considerably poorer, and even he believes he's a better player of spin than pace.

Picking the length early is mostly good hand eye co-ordination, yes. Then there is balance, footwork, shot selection etc - I don't think he does well in any of that regards. none of which I see/saw in Ash.

Everyone knows of his shot selection but is there any evidence to support that his balance was not good? Bear in mind, the comparison hasn't been against all time greats, but of his contemporary BD batsman. He has better balance than anyone on the team apart from Tamim and Mushy indicated by how properly they can execute the drive shot. Don't confuse success or its lack with things like balance or technique.

Worlds better is an exaggeration - but yeah. My defense re: Anam was just due to the heavy criticism he received. I do think his footwork is poor-below par. He makes up for it massively with his shot selection, temperament, balance etc.

The gaps Anamul was leaving when playing Sammy, Roach, Rampaul and Russell could easily be used to park the Titanic! Even Shakib's technique is far tigher than that. Tamim often leaves gaps that big, but he has the ability to close the bat-pad gap when he feels like it. The jury is still out on Anamul.

That's a gross oversimplification - Ash sure as hell couldn't handle the pressure, and is better than 22 avg he curently has, but calling someone 'greatest talent of BD' etc would demand at least a potential 38-40+ odd average in tests- and I just don't see him being that kinda player. And he doesn't even pile on runs on domestic cricket consistently, averaging 50+ there either, sorta backs my point. If you claim that he can't handle 'immense pressure' of your FC cricket, well, I have nothing more to add - we'll agree to disagree.

He was easily capable of averaging a lot more than he did. But you can't simply equate averages to talent. Tendulkar was far more talented than Dravid, but at one point in their careers Dravid had the higher average. Tendulkar should have always averged 10 more than Dravid, no matter how hard working Dravid might have been.

You are making the mistake of making blanket statements like "a talented player will always score more" and "better technique will always mean higher average". You cannot work in absolutes. You can say more likely or most likely, but not absolutes. Otherwise there is no reason to play sports at all. The higher ranked team should always win on paper.

The bottom line is, Ashraful may not be as technically savy as Mushfiq, but apart from that there isn't anyone on BD who was as multidimensional. Shakib is absoltely a better batsman, but Ashraful has performed well against bowlers ranging from Kumble and Murali, to McGrath and Pollock. And thats without mentioning guys like Vaas, Zaheer, Ntini, and Harbhajan. That would suggest he was at least amongst the most talented BD batsman if not the most.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by zsayeed
So - that's how we treat people who service us afterwards - with disrespect and mockery? Talking of dancing and virginity?!

Eita Bangalider dosh - cricketer dosh na.

Choice of every individual depends on their own mentality and attitude... That definitely doesn't lower anyone else.

[mij]

Yes, Ash should play for Bangladesh team until 2020 to see if he can improve just because he won us some games. You never know he might win us 1 or 2 more in next 7 years.

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by mij
Yes, Ash should play for Bangladesh team until 2020 to see if he can improve just because he won us some games. You never know he might win us 1 or 2 more in next 7 years.

Some people never learn how to respect Ashraful. He can dance infront of the crowd "nantu Ghotok"... how dare we make fun of his dancing?

[i_1_primeval_man]

Originally Posted by Fazal


Some people never learn how to respect Ashraful. He can dance infront of the crowd "nantu Ghotok"... how dare we make fun of his dancing?

Yes, yes..How Dare u?..You need to provide source/link where and when he danced, if possible with statistics like how frequent he danced, how long he danced, what were his major dance moves, whether he danced match winning dances or match losing dances..It would be even better if you could compare these stats with some national (Shakib preferrably) and international cricketer-dancing stars..Otherwise we, the new fans, wouldn't believe it happened..
You just cannot say he danced without any source/link/stats and thus disrespect his service

[reyme]

Just go to youtube and search "ashraful dance"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyk5Vb9JxY

He is the best entertainer.

[One World]

While glorifying one player we are undermining the contributions of Nafis Iqbal and Enamul Jr.
SMH

[wktkeeper]

bhai re apnara ki suru korlen. pura pita piti obostha. ash vs shak, are ora to ek e team er player. sobai e bhalo. tai to tara national team e khele. performance team e rakhbe. sir ash ekhon nai, tar mane sir ash age contribute kore nai, eta to thik na.

hoite pare polada ektu immature, bhalo nach e, poor footwork, kintu or kichu innings er jonno oo sarajibon amar moto fan der kache baicha thakbo all the best sir ash

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by wktkeeper
hoite pare polada ektu immature, bhalo nach e, poor footwork, kintu or kichu innings er jonno oo sarajibon amar moto fan der kache baicha thakbo all the best sir ash

Eek doom Khati kotha.

I propose, when Ashraful retire, we should have his staute in front of the stadium to acknowledge his contribution to Bangladesh Cricket, specially in his early days when he was the lone worrier and some wonderfull iniings in between.

... but to do so, he need to retire first.

[SS]

Originally Posted by Fazal
I propose, when Ashraful retire, we should have his staute in front of the stadium to acknowledge his contribution to Bangladesh Cricket.....
... but to do so, he need to retire first.

Retirement benefit bhalo koira na janle kemne retire korbo..is having statue only the benefit..what about monthly pension, bari, gari, nari tukku bou egular bebosta keda korbo...aeita ki mamu (apner) bari naki mamu

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by SS
what about monthly pension, bari, gari, nari tukku bou egular bebosta keda korbo...aeita ki mamu (apner) bari naki mamu

Probha ailo Proba gelo... Monalisa ailo Monalisa gelo...I am concerned. I am just hoping with BPL 2.0 in action, if there is any possibilities hooking up with Sheena.

[Spiderman]

I'm surprised he can't correct himself just don't understand him with so much talent should be averaging well over 40 instead of 20 if he takes care of his 1 time wicket.

[BengaliPagol]

He played a real good looking shot for six.

[Habib]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
He played a real good looking shot for six.

Yup. And I think that deserves a new thread.

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by Habib
Yup. And I think that deserves a new thread.

Good idea

[i_1_primeval_man]

Take a bow Sir Ash. I sincerely hope this is the start of new Ash. We could really use his new found positive attitude. I'm still very sceptical, but all the best to him.

[mij]

where is all ash fan, he is doing great

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by mij
Yes, Ash should play for Bangladesh team until 2020 to see if he can improve just because he won us some games. You never know he might win us 1 or 2 more in next 7 years.

Ya, I don't know why does he suddenly make runs...and all fans will start saying, bring him in the team....why...