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  #1  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:28 AM
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Lightbulb Cautious Optimism and Sudden Light at the End of the Tunnel?

Rain interrupted days are always tougher for batsmen trying to settle in. Conditions change and their flow gets interrupted. Although we're talking about just a handful of those overs, not losing a wicket is encouraging.

I must say Imrul looked good. Sighted the balls well, good leaves, good footwork, solid and compact defense, and unlike some of our "compact" batsmen from the relatively recent past, he can put the bad ones away safely. Good, straight-batted and orthodox strokes through both sides of the park. Unlike them, he doesn't get bogged down because of limited ability, puts pressure on himself as a consequence, and inevitably throws his wicket away. He HAS ability. At least that's what we've seen him do in domestic cricket for a while now.

Initially he was not able to carry that form over from the NCL to the highest level for reasons we know too well, but using the few chances he got, he made adjustments and that effort is finally beginning to bear fruit, or so we hope, 3rd string attack or not. Best and Roach are no pushovers and Sammy can always surprise you with an effective spell or two. Austin is also capable of lulling us into unforced errors over longish spells where our focus will be tested.

Having said all that, it is still way too early to get overly optimistic. The early signs however, are better than the downward spiral we've been witnessing for far too long.

To a related discussion. I posted this team on Asaad's thread on June 25, 2009, before practices matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Batting order for the first test:

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Zunaed Siddiqui
3. Imrul Kayes/Mehrab Hossain ... whoever does the best in practice matches THERE. Minor plus if Mehrab: bowling. Major plus if Imrul: batting.
4. Rokibul Hassan
5. Shakib Al Hassan
6. Mohammad Mahmudullah/Mushfiqur Rahim ... whoever does the best in practice matches THERE. Minor plus if Riyad: bowling. Major plus if GoBoy: batting.
7. Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (C)
8.Saghir Hossain (WK)
9. Shahadat Hossain
10. Enamul Haque
11. Rubel Hossain

H2O Man- Mohammad Ashraful
I always had the idea that someone like Imrul could come in at number 3, if that helped him sight the ball better provided the openers did their jobs as a unit stuck around a bit. Now it seems Z will come in at 3 to prevent further "Rokonification" of his game. Hopefully this new position will give him the opportunity to correct the issues he has with his bottom hand, skidding deliveries, and pacy outcutters and outswingers along the corridor of uncertainty. Once he does that, he can become the player he can be at this level and eliminate the niggling and then full blown disappointment we've had in the past with Opi and to a lesser extent, Rokon.

Once Nafis Iqbal returns to the squad and performs as well as some of us expect him to, we'll have a solid top order with all 4 batsmen capable of opening.

That will provide better opportunities for our middle order to succeed better as a cohesive unit. Imagine a middle order with Ash, Abir, Alok, Shakib, Aftab and Mushy all in form, older and more mature, and Riyad, Naeem and Mehrab continuing to get better and knocking on the door. Imagine solid keeping from Shahin Hossain for the longer version and Dhiman for the shorter ones. Imagine a pace attack that also features the likes of Shubhashish, Shumon and a resurgent Talha with Farhad, Zia, Milon and perhaps even Tapash for the shorter versions, T20Is in particular with their hitting abilities. Imagine genuinely talented slow bowlers like Shaju and Marshall turning it up a notch to make a name for themselves alongside Enam. Fabulicious times ahead after some serious stagnation and heartbreak?

We shall see. This test match in the islands is winnable and let's do that first ...
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Last edited by Sohel; July 10, 2009 at 08:55 AM..
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  #2  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:44 AM
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Thanks for the uplift Sohel bhai, hope this thread doesnt go to waste like the countless other ones we've conceived in the years gone by.
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  #3  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Thanks for the uplift Sohel bhai, hope this thread doesnt go to waste like the countless other ones we've conceived in the years gone by.
I'm with you bro ...
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Old July 10, 2009, 02:17 AM
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IK plays with straight bat. Appreciate it. Hope, it pays off.
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  #5  
Old July 10, 2009, 03:00 AM
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Sohel, I'd share your optimism, but what bothered me was that last bout of cricket we got today. On the soggy pitch, Sammy was making the ball dart around a bit and Imrul looked unsure of his off-stump a few times. Why oh why is NI not getting himself in top shape?

Agree with most of your options except Ash being H20 man - the guy has a point to prove this series.
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  #6  
Old July 10, 2009, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Sohel, I'd share your optimism, but what bothered me was that last bout of cricket we got today. On the soggy pitch, Sammy was making the ball dart around a bit and Imrul looked unsure of his off-stump a few times. Why oh why is NI not getting himself in top shape?

Agree with most of your options except Ash being H20 man - the guy has a point to prove this series.
The conditions were tough and fluctuating but Imrul survived. Never easy to have your flow rained on and start all over again under critically altered pitch conditions. What really encouraged me were his facial reactions and shadow strokes immediately after some of the uncertainty had surfaced through some iffy defensive strokes and on one occasion, a very close leave. I thought he made adjustments and did better with the deliveries that followed.

Sammy has a point to prove, especially as the VC breaking ranks, and bowled well. He took advantage of the windy conditions and additional moisture in the air to generate just enough swing to surprise and trouble both Imrul and Tamim, albeit not too much, after the resumption of play. He is not, IMHO, as good as his heroics suggested in England when he first burst into the scene, but he is often effective and capable. I think the other Windies players, as hastily put together as they were, will also rise to the occasion. Think of the emergence of Malcolm Marshall during the Packer Series substitutions. Rain interruptions or not, I'm looking forward to a very competitive test series.

Nafis Iqbal seemed to be in top shape when I saw him last in the PCL. Once he does well in the NCL, Bagh Mama or no Magh Mama, I don't think it would be possible to keep him out any longer.

The H20 man bit was me lashing out. Not a reasonable decision. As "reasonable" an innings as he had in the practice match, we ARE easily pleased, maybe a benching would've motivated him to come back stronger in the second test and beyond. At least that was the dark and cloudy thought I had at the time ...

Now that he's in the lineup, I wish him and everyone else all the best as always.
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Last edited by Sohel; July 10, 2009 at 04:34 AM..
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  #7  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:29 AM
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Yay, time to kick some caribbean bu**.

Sudden light is ok, when there is massive shortage of power supply.
May be we can fix the national team with the national grid.
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  #8  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:41 AM
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Light at the end of the tunnel - Tunnel comes one after another - Too afraid to think the end [yet].
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  #9  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
H2O Man- Mohammad Ashraful

Imagine a middle order with Ash, Abir, Alok, Shakib, Aftab and Mushy all in form, older and more mature, and Riyad, Naeem and Mehrab continuing to get better and knocking on the door.
H2O man forms a middle order, then !!?
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  #10  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:21 AM
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ya, yesterday was good for cautious optimism.
To see the light at the end of the tunnel, I would like to wait till the end of the series and see how players apply themselves and look closely their approach to the game.
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  #11  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:42 AM
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Sohel... I thought Barisal wicketkeeper Shahin Hossain is more a batsman-wicketkeeper but from your post it seems he is a good wicketkeeper ..
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  #12  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_fan_bd
Sohel... I thought Barisal wicketkeeper Shahin Hossain is more a batsman-wicketkeeper but from your post it seems he is a good wicketkeeper ..
Form what I've seen, he's a better keeper. His batting is somewhat limited and cautious, but useful for the longer versions. Definitely not as aggressive or loose as Dhiman or Pavel, Pavel's batting can be even sloggier, he tries to be compact and play with a straight bat. But local pitches and bowlers won't challenge his batting and adequately prepare him for the highest level the way A team exposure will. Being as young as he is, I hope he gets selected to have a decent run with the Academy and later the A team, especially for the longer version.

Keeping-wise, he burst into the NCL two seasons ago as the league's top keeper, and became even better last season. Makes very few unforced errors and that is reflected in the large number of stumpings and catches already under his belt. VERY agile and athletic with a great sense of space and angles. Not a midget either so he has good range. But better coaching will make him better behind the stumps.

Like him lots ...
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  #13  
Old July 10, 2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Form what I've seen, he's a better keeper. His batting is somewhat limited and cautious, but useful for the longer versions. Definitely not as aggressive or loose as Dhiman or Pavel, Pavel's batting can be even sloggier, he tries to be compact and play with a straight bat. But local pitches and bowlers won't challenge his batting and adequately prepare him for the highest level the way A team exposure will. Being as young as he is, I hope he gets selected to have a decent run with the Academy and later the A team, especially for the longer version.

Keeping-wise, he burst into the NCL two seasons ago as the league's top keeper, and became even better last season. Makes very few unforced errors and that is reflected in the large number of stumpings and catches already under his belt. VERY agile and athletic with a great sense of space and angles. Not a midget either so he has good range. But better coaching will make him better behind the stumps.

Like him lots ...
so from what you've seen who do you rate as the best keeper in the country? dhiman? saghir? shahin? mushy? someone else?
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  #14  
Old July 10, 2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
so from what you've seen who do you rate as the best keeper in the country? dhiman? saghir? shahin? mushy? someone else?
Just keeping-wise:

1. Pilot
2. Shahin
3. Dhiman
4. Pavel/Mithun
5. Mushy.

Pavel and Mithun's height give them extra range, other than that, they're similar. Mushy's keeping has been unacceptable for this level, especially for a team that doesn't get too many breaks, for a while now. He seems to be getting worse behind the stumps.

Cuteness and loudness wise, GoBoy is still number one.
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Old July 10, 2009, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Just keeping-wise:

1. Pilot
2. Shahin
3. Dhiman
4. Pavel/Mithun
5. Mushy.

Pavel and Mithun's height give them extra range, other than that, they're similar. Mushy's keeping has been unacceptable for this level, especially for a team that doesn't get too many breaks, for a while now. He seems to be getting worse behind the stumps.

Cuteness and loudness wise, GoBoy is still number one.
pilot is retired though isn't he? do you consider any of shahin, dhiman, pavel and mithun much better keeping-wise than mushy or just slightly better? because if BD has a keeper who is much better with the gloves than mushy then without doubt they should be in the test team, and then mushy can be a specialist bat.
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  #16  
Old July 10, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Just keeping-wise:

1. Pilot
2. Shahin
3. Dhiman
4. Pavel/Mithun
5. Mushy.

Pavel and Mithun's height give them extra range, other than that, they're similar. Mushy's keeping has been unacceptable for this level, especially for a team that doesn't get too many breaks, for a while now. He seems to be getting worse behind the stumps.

Cuteness and loudness wise, GoBoy is still number one.
But Mithun isn't very tall. I saw him in Wormsley in the practice match against Scotland. He is just about taller than Mushfiq. How do you rate Johirul Islam? Going by stats he is the best batsman-keeper in the country. And from his CricInfo picture he looks like a big guy too. Is his keeping faulty?
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  #17  
Old July 10, 2009, 06:23 AM
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Hope is something we all have to have at this stage. Great to see both openers surviving and coping well with the transition from T20 mode to Test. Yes, there is always a light at the other end. Otherwise it would have been a cave.
+++
I personally do not want to imagine Bd national team with Ash, Alok, Aftab any more. The other "A" needs to do more in domestic league, get his rear back to the ground, then may be he can carry the drinks. I would lick my wounds with the Riyads, Naeems. Limited players but gives 110%. The time for potential is over. Perform and claim your spot. Same with NI.

I have already been "nara" once. I do not want to visit bel tola again.
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Old July 10, 2009, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
I have already been "nara" once. I do not want to visit bel tola again.
Only once!!!!
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  #19  
Old July 10, 2009, 06:31 AM
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Our domestic cricket does not adequately prepare our guys for the highest level. Then we have the management issues. Gotta allow our guys to learn on the job and reach the right age between 27-35 before discarding them.

The alternative? Just look around you for more of the same. A parade of young and inadequately prepared players in and out through the revolving door. I do not support a continuation of that falied, jodi laigga jay policy at all.

If we think our young guys can come up from a shitty domestic scene and do what geniuses like Lara, Tendy, and Pontu did at a young age, I suggest we wake up and smoke something else ...

Let us work with norms and rules rather than exceptions and harness our passion as fans, and let that same passion perpetually cloud our judgment.
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Old July 10, 2009, 06:45 AM
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I can't disagree with you in two fronts. 1) Below par domestic cricket, 2) Learning on the job.

1) Every player has to deal with it. Why make exceptions? With huge potential even in crapy league like ours, the cream should come up way on top. They already have been on the job for how long now?

2) If one can't learn in 7,8+ years on the job, I would take the high road ofcourse. Doesn't make sense otherwise. Team always comes before the individual players. Ranking potentials gave us nothing.

Furthermore, the attitude they have, shows they are not capable of learnings. When a top order player scores 50+ in five innings and satisfied with his performance you think they have learned anything from their previous mistakes. Another one blames on everything nowadays but himself. They don't take responsibility. The whole approach is wrong. I say these players are uncoachable. They corrupt the other young ones as well. Stay away from the national team.
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Old July 10, 2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
I can't disagree with you in two fronts. 1) Below par domestic cricket, 2) Learning on the job.

1) Every player has to deal with it. Why make exceptions? With huge potential even in crapy league like ours, the cream should come up way on top. They already have been on the job for how long now?

2) If one can't learn in 7,8+ years on the job, I would take the high road ofcourse. Doesn't make sense otherwise. Team always comes before the individual players. Ranking potentials gave us nothing.

Furthermore, the attitude they have, shows they are not capable of learnings. When a top order player scores 50+ in five innings and satisfied with his performance you think they have learned anything from their previous mistakes. Another one blames on everything nowadays but himself. They don't take responsibility. The whole approach is wrong. I say these players are uncoachable. They corrupt the other young ones as well. Stay away from the national team.
unfortunately we don't have any better players...yet.

ashraful for all his inability/unwillingess to learn averages 24 which is higher than everyone else except shakib. and at points in his career he's enjoyed an average higher than or equal to shakib's. of course i expect shakib to push his average to 30 within a year.

now is the time we find out if the riyad's and naeems...those untalented but hard-working players can get the job done. if they come in and average 30 or close to that, then yes, ashraful and his ilk will have met their ends.

now i hope that Sohel bhai is right, that players peak at 27-35...i'd lower that to 25-30...and see if the ashrafuls, aftabs, aloks, etc can fight their way back into the international scene once their spots in the team are permenently gone.

and thats the key, ash has only been dropped for a match or two here or there. he was only once dropped for an entire series, and he responded by averaging 40 for an entire calendar year afterwards - highly inconsistent, but hit a 50+ every series. he was once again dropped for the 2006 zimbabwe home series, then went on to hit 118 and 263. if ashraful fails as non-captain now, i would suggest permemently dropping him for at least a full domestic NCL season. mehrab and/or naeem can average 25 with the bat so the only thing we'll miss is that once in year Eid al Ashraf against Sri Lanka.
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Old July 10, 2009, 06:50 AM
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Those mental issues so aptly pointed out, issues as expressed in the middle, are also related to the nature and quality of our domestic scene and overall cricket culture. That said, individual responsibility even under totally funked-up circumstances is the ultimate key to success. Sadly, not to many people can and do succeed, and then go on to sustain that success, when the odds are stacked against them in many ways. Those who do are rare, especially with regards to our cricket.

Maybe that's why we haven't had any? ...

Vain and egotistical youngsters, especially when not too bright and hardworking, take longer to learn. Often annoyingly, exasperatingly so. But we also don't do much as a Board to set them up for success, do we now?
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Old July 10, 2009, 07:17 AM
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sometimes dropping a player and letting them have a think and work on things domestically can really benefit them. i reckon riyad became a better batsman from the little stint he did on the domestic scene when he was dropped from the national team. he went back and worked on his game, and performed so well it was hard to not select him and i think he's looking better on the international stage for it. that's the type of attitude we want all of the players to have.
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Old July 10, 2009, 07:18 AM
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actually, due to budget cut the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut down.
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Old July 10, 2009, 07:33 AM
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[/quote]Once Nafis Iqbal returns to the squad and performs as well as some of us expect him to, we'll have a solid top order with all 4 batsmen capable of opening.

That will provide better opportunities for our middle order to succeed better as a cohesive unit. Imagine a middle order with Ash, Abir, Alok, Shakib, Aftab and Mushy all in form, older and more mature, and Riyad, Naeem and Mehrab continuing to get better and knocking on the door. Imagine solid keeping from Shahin Hossain for the longer version and Dhiman for the shorter ones. Imagine a pace attack that also features the likes of Shubhashish, Shumon and a resurgent Talha with Farhad, Zia, Milon and perhaps even Tapash for the shorter versions, T20Is in particular with their hitting abilities. Imagine genuinely talented slow bowlers like Shaju and Marshall turning it up a notch to make a name for themselves alongside Enam. Fabulicious times ahead after some serious stagnation and heartbreak?

We shall see. This test match in the islands is winnable and let's do that first ... [/QUOTE]


i think marshall and milon's bowling is over rated.milon get success once in a blue moon just like nadif chowdhury. he might be talented but he is so inconsistent. never seen marshall as a wkt taker bowler or match winner bowler.
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