[Electrequiem]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Top post, brother!

What I dislike about fellows like Dawkins - and admittedly I haven't read much of his work, so perhaps I should use the example of Sam Harris (The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation) with whom I am a bit more familiar. Men such as these are just as guilty of intellectual and rhetorical dishonesty because their central claim is that religion causes people to kill, maim, and hurt each other. Firstly, that is false because NOT a single religion teaches violence or intentional harm towards others with the exception of Satanic cults. Secondly, this violates scientific-academic principles - the guiding light of atheists, btw - since anthropology states as a fact that religion is part of a social hierarchy that CREATES order and differentiates human beings from chimpanzees. Thirdly, and most heinous, is the implication or blatant claim that in the absence of religion humanity would be all at peace with each other.

Notice, I am not saying it was Stalin's atheism that inspired him to kill millions in the gulag - an argument used by Harris and his ilk - but pointing out that Stalin's atheism DID NOT prevent him for killing, a point admitted by atheists usually.

What a religion teaches is reflected by how the followers act. If ones who commit intentional harm and propagate violence can find a religious justification for their actions (As most have) - what makes their interpretations WRONG? You can't just point a finger at a suicide bomber and say "oh he's a bad Muslim." He had enough conviction in what he believed in religiously to sacrifice his life - so try and tell him that "religion doesn't teach violence."

And no - that's not their CENTRAL claim. Their central claim is just that the idea of traditional religion and belief in the supernatural is unfounded and irrational.

Your bit about Stalin not being prevented from killing due to his atheism reminds me of this quote by Steven Weinberg:

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion.